An idea for DMG 3 (make it happen, WotC!)

[Mercurius]

There has been some discussion lately--I can't remember which thread(s)--about the stunt mechanism of 4E, improvisation and such, and how there aren't quite enough guidelines, that rather than pages upon pages of powers, it would have been nice to see more guidance for how to improvise power-like effects.

I couldn't agree more, which is why I'm proposing this (listen up, WotC!): A Dungeon Master's Guide 3 which is all about improvisational styles of D&D play. A whole book, you say? Well let's take it beyond stunts, let's see options for playing without powers or a free-form power system. Let's see rules on class creation, race creation, feat and power creation. Let's see a World Building section that is focused on creating and running a sandbox, and improvising encounters and adventures. Let's see a fleshed out and comprehensive random dungeon generator that can be used at the game table.

There have been elements of this through every version of the DMG, but I'd like to see a version devoted entirely to this sort of game play. A true "sandbox edition" of the DMG.

Who is with me on this?

 

[MrMyth]

I wouldn't want to see it take up the entire book, but... sure, I'd definitely be a fan of more advice and guidance along those lines. DMG2 already set the stage for that, honestly, with large sections offering just ideas and concepts and different approaches for RPing, and DMG3 could easily follow that up.

But I'd like to see it alongside new artifacts, traps, and other useful tools that can round out the book, as well.

 

[Scribble]

Let's see rules on class creation, race creation, feat and power creation

Dunno about the rest, but they already announced a book about this stuff at the Gencon seminar.

 

[Zaran]

I doubt we see a DMG 3 for the simple reason that it would look wierd next to the other two being that it will be in in the smaller softcover format. Although I would love to see the suggestions in this thread as well as a guide to making settlements and kingdoms including help with PCs being leaders in those communities.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Suggestions and ideas for things that haven't yet been touched on in the rules are fine. OTOH I'm not so sure a whole bunch of RULES related to 'improvising' is actually a good thing. In fact it seems to me the big complaint is that all the rules that exist in 4e now (powers) is what is crimping people's style when it comes to improvising.

I mean if "page 42" can be explained better and made more accessible to the players, then I'd be happy with that. I just don't want to see a whole laundry list of "now this is what you do when the player wants to trip someone". If you're going to do that then you might as well just make hard and fast rules for all that stuff. IMHO every attempt to do that in previous editions and in other systems has usually been pretty much junk, so I don't see any reason to waste time adding more junk to the game.

I totally agree that there is a lot of room though for say discussions and guidelines for how DMs can approach things like PCs that want to build a castle or tame a herd of animals to mount their band of 100 hired warriors on or whatever other crazy stuff like that people try to do is nice. It should really be a very toolbox approach though, showing how skills and other game elements can be tied together to help do that stuff. Discussions of the proper level of abstraction based on how the action fits into the structure of the overall campaign, etc would all be good. I think it could be something like an "Art of DMing and World Creation" kind of book. There have been some things like that in the past, but 4e could certainly use its own version.

 

[Camelot]

I'd love to see a book on how to make your own classes, races, etc., but I don't think there's a hard and fast formula. Did they really announce such a book at Gen Con?

I don't think improvisation rules are necessary. Suggestions would be fine. I do think there's enough to have a section in a DMG3, and that there's more other stuff that warrents them making a DMG3, but not just of improvisation. Epic tier stuff, like how to go about giving the PCs income when they own a business (or even a town) while still being balanced, and ideas for new locations (I'd love to see their take on multiple universes besides the published campaign settings).

I wouldn't mind if it was paperback.

 

[the Jester]

DMG3 should NOT be all about ways to improvise. If it is, it is completely useless to those that aren't REALLY into improvisational play.

I think DMG3 should have a heavy emphasis on epic play and should include things like:

• An example of an epic setting (NOT UNION, it totally sucked)
• Extensive rules for underwater adventuring
• Extensive rules for aerial combat
• Extensive rules for weird environments- high gravity, sticky air, etc.
• Rules for domain/kingdom management
• Alternate forms of wealth
• A good system for social combat
• Compiled updated monster creation rules
• More expansion, clarification and ideas for skill challenges
• Suggestions for different playstyles than the "assumed 4e standard" (such as low-combat games or low-treasure games)
• A list of magic item rarity- pretty much only common and rare items need to be listed

 

[Grandpa]

I agree that a step-by-step guide to improvisation would have limited use, but I'd love to see more DM emphasis on mechanical design philosophy, conveying why templates, powers, skills, feats, items, monsters, encounters are built the way they are, and sharing the methods the design team uses to balance and create products. I realize this behind-the-scenes approach sometimes appears in articles and podcasts, but it should be a part of their core product line. Helping DMs understand WotC's design philosophy and application is not only useful in empowering homebrew or improvisation, but maximizing the use of prebuilt content, which almost never sticks to the script. (It may also improve the content of content submissions.) The rules exist to maximize quality of play, so it seems odd to say, "it's the DM's job to make it work," followed by, "good luck with that."

 

[The Little Raven]

I doubt we see a DMG 3 for the simple reason that it would look wierd next to the other two being that it will be in in the smaller softcover format.

There was never any claim that DMG3 would be in trade paperback format. In fact, since there are still hardcover books coming out next year (Mordenkainen's Magnificent Emporium, Champions of the Heroic Tier), the immediate assumption that it would change to that format is a massive jump to conclusions.

 

[Camelot]

DMG3 should NOT be all about ways to improvise. If it is, it is completely useless to those that aren't REALLY into improvisational play.

I think DMG3 should have a heavy emphasis on epic play and should include things like:

• An example of an epic setting (NOT UNION, it totally sucked)
• Extensive rules for underwater adventuring
• Extensive rules for aerial combat
• Extensive rules for weird environments- high gravity, sticky air, etc.
• Rules for domain/kingdom management
• Alternate forms of wealth
• A good system for social combat
• Compiled updated monster creation rules
• More expansion, clarification and ideas for skill challenges
• Suggestions for different playstyles than the "assumed 4e standard" (such as low-combat games or low-treasure games)
• A list of magic item rarity- pretty much only common and rare items need to be listed

I agree that a step-by-step guide to improvisation would have limited use, but I'd love to see more DM emphasis on mechanical design philosophy, conveying why templates, powers, skills, feats, items, monsters, encounters are built the way they are, and sharing the methods the design team uses to balance and create products. I realize this behind-the-scenes approach sometimes appears in articles and podcasts, but it should be a part of their core product line. Helping DMs understand WotC's design philosophy and application is not only useful in empowering homebrew or improvisation, but maximizing the use of prebuilt content, which almost never sticks to the script. (It may also improve the content of content submissions.) The rules exist to maximize quality of play, so it seems odd to say, "it's the DM's job to make it work," followed by, "good luck with that."

All of these are great ideas. There is still so much material that warrents a PHB3!