Anachronisms in Fantasy

[Starman]

Not the entire book, no - I read most of the preview material on the WotC site, and I've thumbed through the setting a couple of times in the store.

The lightning-rail reference is simply a quick snapshot of why the fantasy world of Eberron doesn't appeal to me. (To be completely clear, I don't think that makes it bad - it just makes it something that I don't care for.) Artificers, airships, the warforged - none of it is a style of fantasy that strikes a chord with me.

And there's nothing wrong with that. One man's treasure and all that.

I have to admit I'm a bit bemused by all the people who insist that this is a "pulp" fantasy setting. I'm really not quite sure what to make of that, because when I think of "pulp" fantasy, I think of Robert E. Howard or Fritz Leiber, and I can't remember anything about the stories of either that are representative of Eberron. Care to clue me in on what I'm missing here?

I think Howard and Lieber are on the swords'n'sorcery side of pulp. Eberron draws a lot of inspiration from the pulp serials. Look at Indiana Jones (a modern take on the old pulp serials), Flash Gordon, the Shadow, or many of the others. That is what Eberron is drawing on (amongst other things).

Starman

 

[Eosin the Red]

Well to add another layer of hairsplitting....

Several folks appear to be confused on Anachronism. This is something out of time. Trains, TVs, Watches, Specticles, .....None of that is apparent in LotR but Guns in GH are anachronisms.

Cross Genre is what happens when you take sci-fi (space ship) and mix it with fantasy (GH or Blackmoor).

I don't know what to calll using gods from several of real Earths pantheonistic faiths but it is neither an anachronism nor a Cross Genre element. I would say that it is called "Yoinking" the good stuff.

PS -- I hate anachronisms and cross genre but have no problem with yoinking. Having said that, there is only a degree to which I am willing to go to avoid anachronisms FREX my players get to speak in english, women have some rights, and money is largely universal. These are anachronisms to ease game play not evoke flavor.

 

[rounser]

I think Howard and Lieber are on the swords'n'sorcery side of pulp. Eberron draws a lot of inspiration from the pulp serials. Look at Indiana Jones (a modern take on the old pulp serials), Flash Gordon, the Shadow, or many of the others. That is what Eberron is drawing on (amongst other things).

This and Polyhedrons from the last few years give me the impression that pulp is (or was) kind of fashionable amongst the WotC designers. I thought that maybe it hints that they'd really rather be playing or designing for something other than D&D (which is understandable, you'd probably get fed up with it a bit if it was your job)...because the pulp that D&D naturally lends itself to is something like the Wilderlands or Hyboria.

I remember the example of a dwarf talking about dames - that sort of theme was left on the cutting room floor, apparently. This sort of thing (is the lightning rail supposed to be the Orient Express?) suggests to me that they're trying to shoehorn D&D into a role better suited by the RPG Adventure!. I think this shoehorning worked with Dark Sun and it's "after the bomb" apocalyptic vibe, but I don't think contemporary pulp is nearly a good a fit as that.

 

[Robbert Raets]

In Lord of the Rings, there was no magic train

As opposed to the Infinite Layers of the Abyss & the abundance of Fireball Scrolls, of which there was no lack, according to you.

 

[Robbert Raets]

I have to admit I'm a bit bemused by all the people who insist that this is a "pulp" fantasy setting. I'm really not quite sure what to make of that

I suspect you're mis-reading what is being said. We say 'pulp' fantasy, you think we're saying 'pulp fantasy'. Pulp refers to 'dime novels', which include the likes of Doc Savage, while 'pulp fantasy' is the subcategory of 'Conan'. Eberron tries to feel it's way between Flash Gordonesque Action & Adventure and Film Noir.

 

[Gez]

Eberron is Pulp Pulp Fantasy Fantasy. (Parses that! )

 

[rounser]

As opposed to the Infinite Layers of the Abyss & the abundance of Fireball Scrolls, of which there was no lack, according to you.

Fireball scrolls and an infinite Abyss would fit Middle Earth better than a magic train, according to me.

I love the smell of backfiring sarcasm in the morning.

 

[fusangite]

If I can raise a related pet peeve of my own and possibly divert the thread off hair-splitting,

While sometimes having a mix of different technologies and social structures taken from various phases in human development is sometimes entertaining, more often than not, I find it to be clutter that messes with my suspension of disbelief. So I tend to lead towards the historic fantasy and away from the purely unfettered imaginitive.

Which brings me to my real problem with this anachronism question. It seems to me that people tend to only get upset by technological anachronisms and not by social anachronisms. Many fantasy worlds seem to be about modern people having modern ideas and doing modern things while carrying around pre-modern tech. This is, for me, one of the most annoying forms of fantasy. I would much rather go the opposite way and have pre-modern social structures and systems of thought with the occasional anachronistic piece of technology.

I'm really enjoying the campaign in which I am currently involved because the GM is running a society that socially resembles late medieval Russia just after the collapse of the Khanate of the Golden Horde. The game is probably full of technologies that are 100 or 200 years out of date but, not being a military historian, I haven't noticed.

A player recently quit our campaign though because he was unhappy playing in a society that was structured in a pre-modern hierarchical way with none of the economic assumptions that go with modern cash economies. During his last session, he basically stated that he wasn't interested in playing in a game in which the NPCs and other PCs didn't act like modern people. And I found myself responding that while it was fine for his character to think like some kind of modernist aberation, I wasn't interested in playing in a game populated by modern characters living in modern societies. As soon as I said, this, I realized it was true.

 

[hong]

Fireball scrolls and an infinite Abyss would fit Middle Earth better than a magic train, according to me.

Ah, a bit like 50% pregnant compared to 100% pregnant. It's all clear now.


Hong "come back l*w m*gic lovers, all is forgiven" Ooi

 

[Gez]

It seems to me that people tend to only get upset by technological anachronisms and not by social anachronisms.

As I've said on the previous page, I'm cool with (a few) technical anachronism (after all, the typical D&D setting is not the real world's past, and as Aelryinth said smithing mithral and adamantine are anachronical techniques), but dislike societal anachronism (there are already enough that are enforced for gameplay reasons, no need to add more).

By societal anachronism, I mean mindset that relies too much on modern conceptions. Human rights, political correctness, consumer society, large service industry, abstract capitalism, etc.