Anakin's path to darkness too steep! (SPOILERS)

[Brother Shatterstone]

I wanted so much for episodes I - III to be good. I grew up with Star Wars. The figures, the lunch box--it was a definitional part of my childhood. Maybe that's my problem. Perhaps my deep love for the first 3 movies prevents me from liking the last 3.

No I don't think that's your issue as you have many people on this board who loved the first trilogy and who also liked this movie/trilogy. (I proudly consider myself one of them.)

I think you went in to the theater with blinders on cause of you over simplified process. You forgot much of the foreshadowing of the first two movies. (Of course only you really know.)

 

[Kesh]

Just to follow up: Anakin killing the children makes sense from his perspective. First, he was told to kill all of the Jedi in the temple. If he wanted to please his new master, he had to finish the job. And trying to say, "well, they were just kids," would never cut it with a Dark Master of the Sith.

Second, these kids were already Jedi-in-training. Each one had the potential to threaten the stability of the new Empire and the power of the Sith.

Finally: those kids represented everything Anakin never had. He grew up a slave on a harsh desert planet, surrounded by killers and thieves, was always told he was a failure by his boss & the other children with his dreams of pod racing, and was finally freed... because he was the prize in a gamble. And he had to leave his mother behind, which ultimately cost her life.

These kids grew up in relative comfort, with supportive friends and adults, able to focus entirely on their dreams instead of struggling to survive, and being treated with respect he never had.

In Anakin's mind, by that point, they were the epitome of everything he never had. They represented the hypocrisy that the Jedi Order was based on, and he wanted revenge.

 

[Trickstergod]

One thing I will say is that Anakin's fall, while I do believe it credible, gave me the sense that George Lucas was off in the background saying "And this is where you fall," like the actors were taking their cues rather than Anakin was falling to corruption while Palpatine manipulated him. I believed in the fall, but the scene itself seemed a bit artificial.

For what it's worth, I think a few extra lines on Palpatine's behalf could have spelled things out directly enough for anyone - something like "You have helped killed Master Windu, Anakin. There's no turning back from this; the Jedi will kill you as surely as they would have me. There is no one to turn to but me. There is no one else who can save you now, and more importantly, your wife." Something like that would have helped seal Anakin's fall well enough, or provided satisfactory enough explanation.

And as others have pointed out, there was ample enough foreshadowing beyond the original trilogy for Anakin's fall. I think back to the beginning of Sith; Anakin wants to go back and save the clone pilot and has to be reined in by Obi-Wan. Then Anakin does the same with Obi-Wan. If the roles had been reversed, and Palpatine was raising up his lightsaber to strike down Windu, then Anakin would almost assuredly have lopped off Palpatine's hand. Anakin wasn't so selfish as he appeared - just easily manipulated.

Though I am curious as to how the Jedi asking Anakin to spy on Palpatine qualifies as breaching the Jedi Code. Sure, when Mace was getting ready to lop off Palpatine's head, that seemed like a violation, but spying? The Jedi are defenders of the Republic, and Palpatine would surely be a threat to it once war was over (which proved all too true). The Jedi wouldn't be very good defenders if they didn't engage in some degree of espionage.

 

[Desdichado]

They represented the hypocrisy that the Jedi Order was based on, and he wanted revenge.

...of the Sith, no less.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

Sometimes the only way to eliminate --or at least stave off- guilt and paralyzing doubt is to relentlessly pursue the course of action you've began. I imagine this is true for many real-life acts of staggering brutality.

Anakin just cut off Windu's arm... no going back after that. And certainly no time to wonder if that was the smartest thing to do.

I like this idea. I know I've done that myself. Found myself doing something I knew was wrong, but to convince myself that I was doing the right thing I threw myself into it headlong. As if I could prove to myself that I was right by doing it with more gusto.

 

[Larcen]

Ironically, I think it would have made more sense for Anakin to have NOT shown any remorse at disarming )) Windu - if Anakin had instead had dialog that went something like "You were right all along Chancellor! Their power, their greed, their disrespect for the jedi code! I had been blind to it but now I see it so clearly! What must I do?" Then Palpatine closes the loop and finally draws Anakin over to the dark side and the relationship is formed.

THAT would have made more narrative sense to me. Without Anakins regret at disarming Windu there is a less abrubt flip over to the dark side.

Cheers

That new dialog won't work because it implies that Anakin becomes a Sith because of somewhat good intentions. Ultimately he needs to become a Sith because of selfish and EVIL reasons. Such as, "The needs of my wife outweigh the needs of all these innocent Jedi children."

 

[Welverin]

This was building even from the first movie, when he was afraid of being on his own without his mother. >snip long explanation<

Well you just explained things in the exact same way I see them and negated my need to reply to anything.

 

[Victim]

Just seen it this afternoon and I agree with Phaedrus to the extent that he in the confrontation between Windu and Sideous everything seemed reasonable, including his "what have I DONE" angst when he turned against Windu... but then within a few heartbeats he was professing devotion to Sideous as his apprentice.

It was just that the final act of turning to the dark side seemed too... precipitous, compared to the way the rest of it went.

Cheers

He basically didn't have a choice at that point. He was trying to save Palpatine so he could learn how to save his wife and to keep Mace from making the same 'mistake' he did earlier in the movie. But he effectively killed the head of the Jedi Order. Yeah, like he's going back to the Jedi after that. At that point, his only option is throw in with Palpatine.

 

[Brother Shatterstone]

But he effectively killed the head of the Jedi Order. Yeah, like he's going back to the Jedi after that. At that point, his only option is throw in with Palpatine.

Or so Anakin thought... Believe it or not if he had told Obi-Wan the truth, and if Obi-Wan had been around at the time, then forgiveness wouldn't have been impossible and would probably have been likely. Luke strayed from that narrow path many a times and was always able to right himself but his father wasn't so lucky as Palpatine pushed him towards the dark side... "Only then will you be strong enough in the Dark Side to save your wife." (in reference to going to the Jedi Temple.)

 

[Plane Sailing]

That new dialog won't work because it implies that Anakin becomes a Sith because of somewhat good intentions. Ultimately he needs to become a Sith because of selfish and EVIL reasons. Such as, "The needs of my wife outweigh the needs of all these innocent Jedi children."

You mean I can't write film-quality dialog with a few seconds consideration? I'm shocked

The main thing that doesn't make sense to me is Anakin showing remorse at helping to kill Windu and then instantly going over to becoming an apprentice with hardly any further persuasion. I just don't buy it. Let him chop off Windu's arm for selfish and evil reasons then so that there is no remorse. That would be more consistent.

However, I firmly believe that the film needed to give Anakin a more concrete reason to hate and despise all that the jedi stood for in order to massacre them. It was hate that ignited his killing rage amongst the sandpeople, I think it should have been used to ignite it here. Perhaps if Palpatine had played a card that 'proved' that the jedi would never let him save Padme.

Whatever, it was still the weakest part of the film for me, where it should have been the strongest. I loved all the rest of the movie.

Cheers