Analysing the "half" races

[HugeOgre]

Im looking for some feedback from others about the playability of the half races (half celestial, half dragon, half fiend) over the life of a campaign.

How do you deal with the low levels? (when other characters < level 4)?
What if anything is unbalancing about the features of the half races?
How effective are the half races at higher levels (> level 12)?
What other comments would you make that I havent covered above?

I have my own opinions, but I wanted to hear the communities without influencing the discussion.

Thanks

 

[Bad Paper]

The higher the level adjustment, the more glass the character's jaw is: "Wow! A half-celestial paladin! Scary! Oh, he has only 13 hit points, you say? OK, then DIE!"

 

[Moonstone Spider]

How do you deal with the low levels? (when other characters < level 4)?
I don't think normally GMs allow them at all. Savage Species doesn't have a level system for those templates as it does LA+ species themselves.

What if anything is unbalancing about the features of the half races?
I don't think anything about them is particularly unbalancing. In fact I think that, like most things with a +LA, they're broken in being way too weak.

A high-level rogue could make a murderous sneak attack using the multi-attack feat since half races can have three natural attacks. Also since the spell-like abilities have no cost in either XP or materials, a half-celestial can be a free ressurection machine at epic levels of 24 or higher.

How effective are the half races at higher levels (> level 12)?
They're not. A Half Dragon's +2con will almost make up for it's lost hit die, and it's strength will make it's to-hit equal to it's BAB lost (But it probably loses a bonus attack).
The Dragon's Breath Weapon isn't damaging enough at high levels to wipe out anything but swarms of mooks, and it's only good once a day anyway.

Fiendish and Celestial halfers will always be short on saves and HP from the lost levels (No Bonuses to Attributes), making them weak vs. phsyical attacks. DR vs. Magic is useless at these levels because pretty much everything is magic by that point. Energy and Spell resistance are nice, but a wizard with no LA will be punching through the SR 70% of the time and your weakened saves mean you'll suffer full damage more often. A few of the SLA's a nice but they're very limited (Once a day for most) and a straight spellcaster build will have almost all of them earlier than you can get them as a Half-race.

 

[HugeOgre]

Those are exactly the comments my own group has made since 3.5 was released, and my own experiences playing a half dragon troll something or other in a campaign a couple of years ago. I just wanted to make sure I wasnt missing something.

I'll post something this evening that I wrote up over the weekend, and hopefully I can get some feedback from the group.

 

[pawsplay]

IMG, I don't usually recommend someone take more than 1/4 of their ECL in LA. I disallow more than 1/2. Thus, for a LA +3 race, I wouldn't allow it in play at less than ECL 6.

 

[HugeOgre]

For anyone wanting to start a new campaign with an interesting background like a hero with a celestial parent, the template for a “half celestial” has all but made such ideas impossible. The Effective Character Level of a Half Celestial is +4, making it difficult to incorporate in a standard new campaign beginning at 1st level. Those DMs who allow it anyway find the powers allow the character to outshine the other characters, often creating ill will among players and unbalancing the game itself. Then, as we discussed earlier, these characters end up with a bit of a glass jaw – underpowered from many perspectives as character levels
continue to go up.

Celestial Feats
As a half celestial’s knowledge of goodness grows, she can tap into more and more of the abilities of her celestial parent. These feats are powered by that goodness, and as such have a special limitation on them not found in other types of feats. The hero must remain good – willfully committing an evil act or grossly violating the code of ethics expected of a celestial causes her to lose access to all Celestial feats until such time as she atones for her violations, as detailed in the clerical atonement spell. Spell resistance will fail, damage and energy resistance will become inert, and ability scores will suffer. In some cases her very wings may fall off.

Celestial Parent
One of your parents was a celestial, and the goodness of them courses through your veins, bestowing you with great powers.
Benefit: Your type changes to outsider [native], and you gain darkvision out to 60 feet. You are immune to disease. You also gain +4 racial bonus on Fortitude saves against poison. Once per day you can make a normal melee attack to deal extra damage equal to your HD (maximum of +20) against an evil foe. As you progress you may choose feats of the Celestial subtype to augment your abilities. You now radiate an aura of good though in the same way that paladins and clerics do. Your aura can be detected, and is equal to your hit die, just like the aura of a cleric of a good deity.

Celestial Prowess [Celestial]
Your abilities are unparalleled by your fellow man.
Prerequisites: Celestial Parent
Benefits: Each of your six ability scores increases by 1.

Celestial Body [Celestial]
Prerequisite: Celestial Parent, Celestial Prowess
Benefit: Your body not only flows with the blood of angels, but has many of the same properties. Your nature weapons (if any) are considered magical, and you gain damage resistance 5 / magical. If you have more than 10 hit die your damage resistance increases to 10 / magical. Your skin becomes tougher, improving your natural armor by +1 (this stacks with any natural armor bonus you already have).

Celestial Spell Resistance [Celestial]
Prerequisites: Celestial Parent, Celestial Body
The blood of your Celestial parent protects you from the magic of others.
Benefit: Your gain spell resistance equal to your hit die +10 (maximum 35).

Lesser Celestial Spells [Celestial]
Prerequisites: Celestial Parent, Wisdom 11 or higher
You can use a daylight effect (as the spell) at will. You gain the following abilities at the hit die indicated. The abilities are cumulative. Unless otherwise noted, an ability is usable once per day. Caster level equals your HD, and the save DC is Charisma-based.
1-2 Protection from evil 3/day, bless
3-4 Aid, detect evil
5-6 Cure serious wounds, remove disease
7-8 Holy smite, neutralize poison
9-10 Dispel evil

Celestial Spells [Celestial]
Prerequisites: Celestial Parent, Lesser Celestial Spells, Wisdom 14 or higher
You gain the following abilities at the hit die indicated. The abilities are cumulative
11-12 Holy word
13-14 Holy aura 3/day, hallow
15-16 Mass charm monster
17-18 Resurrection
19-20 Summon monster IX (celestials only)

Celestial Energy Resistance [Celestial]
Prerequisite: Celestial Parent
Benefit: You gain resistance 5 to acid, cold and electricity. This feat does not stack with energy resistance granted by magic items or any other magical effects.
Special: You can gain this feat multiple times. Each time you take it, your resistance increases by 5.

Winged [Celestial]
Prerequisite: Celestial Parent, Celestial Body
Benefit: Your celestial heritage bestows you with white feathery wings, which you can use to fly. You can fly at twice your base land speed with good maneuverability. If you can already fly, use that speed and maneuverability instead.

Holy Strike [Celestial]
Prerequisites: Celestial Parent, Celestial Body, Epic Level.
Benefit: Any weapon you wield is treated as a holy weapon (is good-aligned and deals an extra 2d6 points of damage against creatures of evil alignment).If the weapon already has an alignment, this feat has no effect on the weapon.

 

[szilard]

Fiendish and Celestial halfers will always be short on saves and HP from the lost levels (No Bonuses to Attributes), making them weak vs. phsyical attacks.

No bonuses to attributes?

Half-fiend: Str +4, Dex +4, Con +2, Int +4, Cha +2.
Half Celestial: Str +4, Dex +2, Con +4, Int +2, Wis +4, Cha +4.

All saves get a boost, as do hp and attack/damage rolls. Coupled with other things like ER, DR, SR, natural armor, flight, spell-likes, etc... I find it a fairly tempting deal.

I played a Half-Celestial (Monk/Sorcerer/Enlightend Fist) in a high-level game. He worked out pretty well. I found that between the increasing DR and the spell-like abilities (which are remarkably good), Half-Celestial scaled rather well with level.

-Stuart

 

[Liquidsabre]

How do you deal with the low levels? (when other characters < level 4)?
We use the Savage Progressions article series on the WotC website that breaks these templates down into template levels. So a 4th level character can start as a 3rd level fighter and 1 level of the half-dragon template. While the article series produced the half-fiend template class it was recommended that the half-celestial should be very similar in it's design. I have a link to my work up of the half-celestial template class in my sig below.

What if anything is unbalancing about the features of the half races?
The abilities can be powerful at low levels (though at max LA for the template, the lack of HD makes them unplayable) but aren't necessarily as good at higher levels. For example, a 6th level half-dragon (LA+3) Fighter 3 can have a very high AC for the character's level though his HD are half of what would be normal for a 6th level fighter. This is why I'm a big fan of takin the templates levels as it tends to mitigate the power at low levels as well as the HD problem in one fell swoop.

How effective are the half races at higher levels (> level 12)?
Depends on the template. The half-fiend and half-celestial continue gaining more powerful spell-like abilities and other bennies as their HD increase so they do pretty well. Other templates that have abilities that don't scale with level tend to play a less significant role in a character's power at higher levels.

What other comments would you make that I havent covered above?
These templates work just fine taken in moderation (i.e. gradual template level introduction along with normal character class progression) and can work well for any character that isn't playing a caster class. The lack of HD and spell progression with LA-based templates and creatures make it rough on any character's survivability and utility. It's a flawed system that I hope to eventually see go away, with a sort of magic rating (at least caster level increases) and minimal HD increases (say 1d4+CON) and seeing these template levels increases (say a 4-level template would become a 5-level one instead).

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

IMG, I don't usually recommend someone take more than 1/4 of their ECL in LA. I disallow more than 1/2. Thus, for a LA +3 race, I wouldn't allow it in play at less than ECL 6.

I think you have it right there.

INMSHO LA more than ~1/3 fo the character level is likely to be completely unplayble in most campaigns. LA often (not not always) increases the power of the PC, but it generally hurts PC survivability.

I think an LA <1/4 can make some interesting PCs while not having giving a hopelessly weak jar.

 

[Palladion]

I have to agree with Liquidsabre. The effect of a template (or template class levels) is felt most significantly by a primary caster because of the slowdown of spell progression. However, if a template does not offer a bonus to Con, then even a combat character will suffer from the lack of hp, base attack bonus, or feats.

Remember that the Challenge Rating of most templates is not equal to the level adjustment, more often than not, it is lower. That means on comparison, a templated character is less of a threat (in some cases) than a character with full character level progression.

Generally we have used Savage Progressions as a way to smooth out the power curve of templates (if we use them at all). Dragon #326 has some for the half-elemental templates that I have always enjoyed.