D&D General (Anecdotal) conversations with Asian gamers on some problems they currently face in the D&D world of RPG gaming

Sadras

Hero
This association is disingenuous. To the point of baffling. No one is doing that. Only you are. Dismissing opinions. And making absurd connections.
Not everyone thinks alike. Not everyone has the same experiences. Should be at least heard from everyone. Not casually dismissed. And accusations made about. Stop trying to speak for others.

I appreciate that your opinions did not take 26 hours to summarise and that you weren't paid for them.
 

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FrogReaver

As long as i get to be the frog
This association is disingenuous. To the point of baffling. No one is doing that. Only you are. Dismissing opinions. And making absurd connections.
Not everyone thinks alike. Not everyone has the same experiences. Should be at least heard from everyone. Not casually dismissed. And accusations made about.
Stop trying to speak for others.

Factually - some here dismissed the opinions of all asians not finding the material offensive by stating they were just grinning and bearing it.
 

Voadam

Legend
#5. No more white washing. I pointed this out before, but I don't think anyone took notice, and most Americans may not anyways. Many companies create a class called the Ninja, or the Samurai, or another class based upon an Asian notation (such as a nobility, a group, an occupation, or otherwise). However, in many instances it is something that will normally be used by a Non-Asian background or group. It is accepted that they'll have Elf Ninja's or Western style samurai. No cultural notation is made regarding what these classes originally were in a historical and cultural reference. It is taking names out of context and putting them into a game term.

Some felt it was respectable that people would give such adherence to things such as the ideas of Ninjas. Some also felt that while it was notable the fascination in the West with such terms, stealing the term and using it to be completely out of context and ignoring the larger culture behind it was normally seen as less desirable. If one is going to take cultural aspects, define it in regards to the culture one is taking it from.

I find this one interesting.

Basically do not use our stuff in D&D outside of its context. "I don't want Elven ninjas in generic D&D."

I've also heard arguments going the other way. That including Asian stuff only in an Asian-context is inappropriate because it exoticizes Asian stuff and says that it is not appropriate to put in generic D&D the way a Christian crusader template cleric or a Celtic pagan template druid can be used as a priest of a Greek or Asian or Elven God.

Basically do not limit use of our stuff in D&D to its context. "I want Elven ninjas in generic D&D to be as much of an option as Elven druids."
 

Factually - some here dismissed the opinions of all asians not finding the material offensive by stating they were just grinning and bearing it.
Factually - Asians are raised to grin and bear things. This does not mean opinions are dismissed.
Do not accuse someone of saying something they did not say. Ever.

Opinions you want considered relevant. Stop dismissing opinions. Stop making things up. Stop trying to speak for others.
 

FrogReaver

As long as i get to be the frog
Factually - Asians are raised to grin and bear things. This does not mean opinions are dismissed.

Suggesting a person has a different opinion than what they are stating meets the definition of dismissive.

Do not accuse someone of saying something they did not say. Ever.

I hope you understand that goes both ways.

Opinions you want considered relevant. Stop dismissing opinions. Stop making things up. Stop trying to speak for others.

It's offensive that you accuse others of doing that.
 

Suggesting a person has a different opinion than what they are stating meets the definition of dismissive.
People have different opinions. Repeatedly said. Many times. Whether you want to listen to that. Or listen what you want to is up to you.

I hope you understand that goes both ways.

It's offensive that you accuse others of doing that.
Even after repeated posts. You and Sadras have continued to make offensive connections. Accusations. Dismissals.
 


Immeril

Explorer
I find this one interesting.

Basically do not use our stuff in D&D outside of its context. "I don't want Elven ninjas in generic D&D."

I've also heard arguments going the other way. That including Asian stuff only in an Asian-context is inappropriate because it exoticizes Asian stuff and says that it is not appropriate to put in generic D&D the way a Christian crusader template cleric or a Celtic pagan template druid can be used as a priest of a Greek or Asian or Elven God.

Basically do not limit use of our stuff in D&D to its context. "I want Elven ninjas in generic D&D to be as much of an option as Elven druids."
Now there's an idea for a multi-video Youtube series! 'Druids Read... AD&D Moonshae'
 


Now there's an idea for a multi-video Youtube series! 'Druids Read... AD&D Moonshae'

I mean, Moonshae is pretty offensively stupid, not so much to Druids as y'know, anyone who is actually from Ireland, Scotland or a variety of other places. It's part of this weird American-centered (but not limited to there) Celt-o-mania that had been going for decades but made a comeback in the 1980s. I think it's fair to say it was pretty freakin' lame.
 



Sacrosanct

Legend
Publisher
Factually - Asians are raised to grin and bear things.

No, that's not a fact. It's a stereotype. As someone who's lived for several years in an Asian country, it sure seemed to me like it was an individual parent thing rather than a hivemind culture thing to "grin and bear it". There were just as many Asians who complained about things as there were Americans, or Europeans when I lived in Germany. People are people. Ascribing a stereotype convenient to your argument is bad. Stop doing it. And while I can't speak for others, if I were one of these Asian posters in these threads who didn't agree with you, and you dismissed my feelings based on you telling me how my culture actually is, I'd probably feel insulted.

Edit In fact, I'd go further and say it's a harmful stereotype on similar grounds to the "Asians are good at math" stereotype. I.e., it sets up an unfair expectation. An unfair bar raised higher than anyone else has to reach. "Your culture is to just grin and bear it" means "you shouldn't complain about things and if you do you failed somehow, when others are allowed to complain and it's socially acceptable for them."
 
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FrogReaver

As long as i get to be the frog
No, that's not a fact. It's a stereotype. As someone who's lived for several years in an Asian country, it sure seemed to me like it was an individual parent thing rather than a hivemind culture thing to "grin and bear it". There were just as many Asians who complained about things as there were Americans, or Europeans when I lived in Germany. People are people. Ascribing a stereotype convenient to your argument is bad. Stop doing it. And while I can't speak for others, if I were one of these Asian posters in these threads who didn't agree with you, and you dismissed my feelings based on you telling me how my culture actually is, I'd probably feel insulted.

I know we don't often agree, but thank you.
 

FrogReaver

As long as i get to be the frog
Stop accusing me of dismissing the opinions of all Asians not finding the material offensive by stating they were just grinning and bearing it.
That is a false and offensive conclusion.
Stop that.

I've said my piece. No need to continue this back and forth.
 


Undrave

Hero
Do we really need to defend Oriental Adventures? I mean, aside from the fact none of us really control WotC's decision.

Those who really enjoyed it back in the bad already have it... what, exactly, would be lost by not selling it anymore? Does every literary works needs to be available all the time for purchase? Beyond preserving the existing physical copies, is there a need to 'protect' OA by allowing to be still be sold? What is the value being defended here when someone opposes taking it down?

Regardless if you think the complaint is genuine or simply a move to grab attention (the former, and call me naive if you want, I am more inclined to believe).
 

Immeril

Explorer
Do we really need to defend Oriental Adventures? I mean, aside from the fact none of us really control WotC's decision.

Those who really enjoyed it back in the bad already have it... what, exactly, would be lost by not selling it anymore? Does every literary works needs to be available all the time for purchase? Beyond preserving the existing physical copies, is there a need to 'protect' OA by allowing to be still be sold? What is the value being defended here when someone opposes taking it down?

Regardless if you think the complaint is genuine or simply a move to grab attention (the former, and call me naive if you want, I am more inclined to believe).
I refer to post #42 (the answer to life, the universe and everything) by Snarf Zagyg. Who has the authority (and on what grounds) to decide which books/movies/series/... are allowed to remain and which should be removed/banned. Even if the books we keep are just as questionable as the books that we remove.
 

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