Angel 1-22-03 (Spoilers)

[John Crichton]

But doesn't Angel have to fully lose his soul to become Angelus? I dunno, this conceopt bothers me. I thought he was always Angelus, just that he regretted his actions and recognized them as evil when he got a soul. They're treating it like he's got multiple personalities.

To add to what WizardDru said, I believe the curse is fairly specific about what would take away his soul: a moment of true happiness (ie, what Buffy gave him circa Season 2 of B:tVS). I guess that's why they call it a curse, it's not supposed to be fun. But, the curse was cast again by Willow and could be different than the first curse originally placed on him by the gypsies. They already toyed with this in one ep where he was slipped some drugs to make him loosen up a bit and he temporarily reverted to the Angelus persona. So, they kinda are like 2 totally different people.

*sigh* And to reiterate, they realy should have used this storyline as a crossover opportunity with Buffy...

As much I liked the last x-over they did, I would like to see both shows stand on their own 2 feet rather than feed off one another. Plus, being on different networks makes it hard to make it happen. With Buffy teetering on the brink of leaving the air, I'd like to see Angel exsist as independantly as possible while still being part of the Buffy-verse.

 

[danzig138]

Unless I've got it wrong, normally, when a vamp kills a human, they keep the body (and memories) of the original host, but a new demon is essentially created within the host, with a feral, amoral personality. They are, for all intents and purposes, a different being.

There is some evidence that not only does the demon keep the victim's memories, but his personality is patterned in general from the victim's, just with all of the evil tendancies beging dominant. So one might argue that the vampire isn't really a different being, but the victim with a new outlook on life.

Angel's curse returned his soul back to his body...theoretically creating a weird (and until recently, unique) hybrid - a vampire with a soul, and thus a conscience and empathy.

What I've always wondered is, is it actually Liam's soul that was returned? Or did the gypsy curse just kind of grab a soul from the aether? And where was Liam's soul? We know Buffy went someplace good after death, but what about Liam? Did he get snatched out of someplace good or bad?

 

[Nightfall]

Boy, I sure hope all of the Faith spoilers are fake.

Afraid not. Joss confirmed it and Eliza Dushku has something about it on her site I believe.

Also Sci-fi wire confirms it with an interview by Amy Acker - Fred.

Here's the link: http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire/art-tv.html?2003-01/14/11.00.tv

 

[KnowTheToe]

But doesn't Angel have to fully lose his soul to become Angelus? I dunno, this conceopt bothers me. I thought he was always Angelus, just that he regretted his actions and recognized them as evil when he got a soul. They're treating it like he's got multiple personalities.

*sigh* And to reiterate, they realy should have used this storyline as a crossover opportunity with Buffy...

Yes, this is just some of the many inconsisancies of the show, or it could be a complexity that we are just not aware of, some memory supressed by magic or some such. I thought this episode was lack luster, especially after last weeks, but this episode might be transitional.

I also dislike the electro lady, she has no screen presence, I don't respect her and she is not attractive enough just to be eye candy for the show. Faith could make a good transition into the show, she does have strong screen presence but just had a weak storyline created around her. Look at Wesley, he went from bumbling claud to the toughest character on the show.

 

[Hand of Evil]

Afraid not. Joss confirmed it and Eliza Dushku has something about it on her site I believe.

Also Sci-fi wire confirms it with an interview by Amy Acker - Fred.

Here's the link: http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire/art-tv.html?2003-01/14/11.00.tv

Off to the right of the above link a little tidbit...

The manager for Nicholas Brendon (Xander on UPN's Buffy the Vampire Slayer) released a statement denying recent rumors that Xander would move over to The WB's spinoff series Angel, according to Dark Horizons. "Nick will absolutely not be going over to Angel. The possibility has never been entertained, nor would Nick be interested if it had been mentioned."

 

[KnowTheToe]

Off to the right of the above link a little tidbit...

The manager for Nicholas Brendon (Xander on UPN's Buffy the Vampire Slayer) released a statement denying recent rumors that Xander would move over to The WB's spinoff series Angel, according to Dark Horizons. "Nick will absolutely not be going over to Angel. The possibility has never been entertained, nor would Nick be interested if it had been mentioned."

Good, he would be a lousy fit.

 

[John Crichton]

I don't really know if any of the original Scooby gang would work on Angel. Wes was never really part of the group nor was Cordy (she was more of a fringe member) so they were easy to bring over. I don't think any of the Big 4 (Buffy, Willow, Xander, Giles) would work on any sort of permanent basis on Angel. They are tied to that show and to Buffy and that's where they should stay.

As for the cross-over, if it works with the story than I am all for it but I don't want it to be a crutch. Angel has the cast to pull off any story it needs to based on it's own merit now. I like the Faith thing because I can't get enough of her and Willow being there for just one ep isn't bad at all. I just don't want to see too much screen time taken away from the main characters on the show, like Cordy and Wes. When the show involves those two (plus Angel) it is at its strongest. Fred and Gunn are cool but I actually enjoy the scenes with Lorne more than either of the others. And as for Gwen, I would love to see her as a reoccuring character.

 

[WizarDru]

Hell, any time Lorne is on screen, it's pure gold. He goes a long way to making the really dark moments much easier to take. I like Fred and Gunn, but their relationship never seemed quite right to me. The writers have genuinely suprised me with how they've handled Wesley this season...I was truly worried that he'd descend into cliche', and follow some predictable path, like joining W&H. I really liked where they went with it, and generally like the direction of this season over last by a wide margin.

 

[John Crichton]

Hell, any time Lorne is on screen, it's pure gold. He goes a long way to making the really dark moments much easier to take. I like Fred and Gunn, but their relationship never seemed quite right to me. The writers have genuinely suprised me with how they've handled Wesley this season...I was truly worried that he'd descend into cliche', and follow some predictable path, like joining W&H. I really liked where they went with it, and generally like the direction of this season over last by a wide margin.

You make some good points that mirror the way I feel about Wes and Lorne. I actually liked last season very much. Especially the Darla stuff. This season has been just as good so far and it looks like it's getting even better. Every year it gets better than the last I'd have to say and that's a good sign.

 

[KnowTheToe]

I also like how Wesley and Lorn are portrayed. On of the things I really like about Angel, is how the shows mood is so different than Buffy. Angel is dark and gritty with a dark edge. These people lead a hard life, always facing evil, winning one fight just to enter another. Lorn gives the show a lightheartedness and helps bring the fun parts of the other characters personalities out.