Dragonblade
Adventurer
Angel 11-12-03
Wow! What a powerful episode of Angel. What did everyone think?
Wow! What a powerful episode of Angel. What did everyone think?
Angel 11-12-03 (SPOILERS INSIDE!)
- Thread starter Dragonblade
- Start date
Jamdin
Explorer
Dragonblade said:
I thought it was really cool when Wes said "Hello, father" and there was Father from Beauty & the Beast series. Roy Dotrice was great in the role and I actually jumped with Wes' choice. This episode further cements why Wes is my favorite character and how much he has evolved on Angel.
Next week looks like another winning flashback episode plus the battle that fans have been waiting for.
John Crichton
First Post
That's what I call sweeps TV. 
Big spoilers to follow, you have been warned...
All In The Family
Wes' father was really fun to watch interact with Wes and the gang. I liked how their relationship, while rocky, wasn't cliched. I felt like their was some genuine love between the two, despite their differences. It was also interesting to see a former Watcher in action, not to mention touching just a bit on some events we saw in Buffy Season 7 (more on that later). The father & son fighting the roboninja was fun, "I had attack priority!" And just at the moment where a little light from Pa Wyndom-Price comes through, wham, the twist. In no way did I see that coming, which was very refreshing.
The Lovely Miss Burkle
Whether or not you consider Fred attractive or not makes no difference, she serves as the foil very well here. It has been very obvious that Wes still pines for her and she has been blissfully ignorant. I had no idea his feelings for her were that deep until Wes pulled the trigger. Again. And again. And again. Sure, it could be many things repressed coming out all at once, but he cared for her enough to kill his own father because she was in mortal danger. Heady stuff which I hope will be further explored in future episodes.
The Return of the Rogue Demon Hunter
The Max Payne-esque dive with twin guns blazing was worth an extra half point in my rating, all by itself.
Vampires With Humors
Spike almost stole the whole show with his one liners and quips. Add that to the possibility that the the amulet may have been meant for him all along and the episode gets even better. "I know what this is. You'll never take me to Hell, Pavane!! Oh. Well that's just something I say. When, uh... it gets dark." Classic.
Angel and Spike's attempts to make Wes feel better about killing his dad were hillarious as well. It was sly and you had to be quick to catch it (plus be a Buffy watcher), but Spike's line about sex with robots was great.
Overall
A well-plotted episode worthy of the Angel lineage (no pun intended, referring to this week's title). It was Wes-centric, but I was waiting for one of these episodes to come along. It had plenty of other plot points to deal with the other characters, too. A potential bang of good guys out to take on the Angel-run W&H. Spike's fate. Throw in some quality TV action and you have one of the best hours of television this season.
Final Grade: 3.5 out of 4 stars. Great character moments and hopefully a glimpse of what is to come. That and cyborg ninjas.
4 = Classic. Blew me away from start to finish.
3 = Very good. Entertaining and a worthwhile experience.
2 = Average. Watchable but flawed.
1 = Terrible. Unwatchable dreck.
0 = I wish I had that time back. So bad that I may never watch the show again.
Big spoilers to follow, you have been warned...All In The Family
Wes' father was really fun to watch interact with Wes and the gang. I liked how their relationship, while rocky, wasn't cliched. I felt like their was some genuine love between the two, despite their differences. It was also interesting to see a former Watcher in action, not to mention touching just a bit on some events we saw in Buffy Season 7 (more on that later). The father & son fighting the roboninja was fun, "I had attack priority!" And just at the moment where a little light from Pa Wyndom-Price comes through, wham, the twist. In no way did I see that coming, which was very refreshing.
The Lovely Miss Burkle
Whether or not you consider Fred attractive or not makes no difference, she serves as the foil very well here. It has been very obvious that Wes still pines for her and she has been blissfully ignorant. I had no idea his feelings for her were that deep until Wes pulled the trigger. Again. And again. And again. Sure, it could be many things repressed coming out all at once, but he cared for her enough to kill his own father because she was in mortal danger. Heady stuff which I hope will be further explored in future episodes.
The Return of the Rogue Demon Hunter
The Max Payne-esque dive with twin guns blazing was worth an extra half point in my rating, all by itself.
Vampires With Humors
Spike almost stole the whole show with his one liners and quips. Add that to the possibility that the the amulet may have been meant for him all along and the episode gets even better. "I know what this is. You'll never take me to Hell, Pavane!! Oh. Well that's just something I say. When, uh... it gets dark." Classic.
Angel and Spike's attempts to make Wes feel better about killing his dad were hillarious as well. It was sly and you had to be quick to catch it (plus be a Buffy watcher), but Spike's line about sex with robots was great.
Overall
A well-plotted episode worthy of the Angel lineage (no pun intended, referring to this week's title). It was Wes-centric, but I was waiting for one of these episodes to come along. It had plenty of other plot points to deal with the other characters, too. A potential bang of good guys out to take on the Angel-run W&H. Spike's fate. Throw in some quality TV action and you have one of the best hours of television this season.
Final Grade: 3.5 out of 4 stars. Great character moments and hopefully a glimpse of what is to come. That and cyborg ninjas.
4 = Classic. Blew me away from start to finish.
3 = Very good. Entertaining and a worthwhile experience.
2 = Average. Watchable but flawed.
1 = Terrible. Unwatchable dreck.
0 = I wish I had that time back. So bad that I may never watch the show again.
Heretic Apostate
First Post
So, is Wes the guy who was supposed to be Faith's watcher, in the second season of Buffy? Or is it another guy entirely.
And what's the next episode supposed to be about, again?
And what's the next episode supposed to be about, again?
John Crichton
First Post
He was actually the replacement for Giles.
Next week looks like an Angel/Spike showdown with flashbacks of Dru.
Next week looks like an Angel/Spike showdown with flashbacks of Dru.
Welverin
First Post
John Crichton said:The Return of the Rogue Demon Hunter
The Max Payne-esque dive with twin guns blazing was worth an extra half point in my rating, all by itself.
That was good, hopefully we'll see more of it in the future.
I love the humor! It's one of the things that hooked me on Buffy , and I think the two shows have always been better when they include a bit of levity in them.
It remains to be seen if the robo-ninjas were good, though it will interesting to see the gang come into conflict with other good guys because of there new employers (assuming of course that it's followed up on).
p.s. John would you drop in the "what are you reading thread and share your views on {i]The Lone Drow[/I], I'd like to know what you think of it without venturing into the spoiler thread.
LightPhoenix
First Post
I must say, I think this was the best episode so far this season. I won't go as in depth as JC did, but I want to hit a few points.
I think Spike fit in pretty well in this episode, both in his interactions with Angel and Wesley, and his interaction with Eve. I think this episode, more than any other so far, made me think that Spike on Angel will work. I don't think he dominated the show at all (though see more below). Certainly no more than Fred did, or Angel, or even Eve. His report to Angel had me laughing out loud.
Wesley - He remembers Lilah! That's seriously a load off my mind. Sure, he doesn't remember kidnapping Connor at all, but he does seem to remember Lilah getting killed by Cordy/Jasmine.
On a related note, they really do love putting Wesley through the wringer, don't they? Eve and Angel talked about how Wesley was willing to sacrifice anything for the greater good. Even in the earlier seasons, you can see Wesley willing to take risks, but never really to sacrifice his friends, only himself. Maybe his change is because HE'S SO ABUSED!!!!
Ooh, and we get Wesley with guns again! Kinky.
Alright, I must grudgingly admit Fred didn't irritate the hell out of me this episode. I'm not sure why exactly she didn't have a weapon at all in the beginning, but she did stick up for Wesley, even if she's too dense to realize Wesley's feelings - hopefully she'll be more aware after tonight's episode.
Gunn was vastly underused this week, though it was nice to see him kick some cyborg ninja butt along with Angel. Part of the problem with him having been defined as the muscle in previous seasons was that his combat ability was always trivialized compared to Angel. Good to see him hold his own today.
And in more grudging admittence, Eve didn't bother me as much this week either. She seemed much less perky this week than she has in the past. She's definitely in the role of the temptress - she has really good observations and advice, but she's definitely evil too. I mean, just look at the changes in Angel with her around - he's more angry, more defensive, and more agressive overall.
Finally, a very nice touch at end with Wesley calling his parents.
Oh, and I seriously cheered when Wesley told Fred to go. I feel much better now that I know I still can't stand her.
I think Spike fit in pretty well in this episode, both in his interactions with Angel and Wesley, and his interaction with Eve. I think this episode, more than any other so far, made me think that Spike on Angel will work. I don't think he dominated the show at all (though see more below). Certainly no more than Fred did, or Angel, or even Eve. His report to Angel had me laughing out loud.
Wesley - He remembers Lilah! That's seriously a load off my mind. Sure, he doesn't remember kidnapping Connor at all, but he does seem to remember Lilah getting killed by Cordy/Jasmine.
On a related note, they really do love putting Wesley through the wringer, don't they? Eve and Angel talked about how Wesley was willing to sacrifice anything for the greater good. Even in the earlier seasons, you can see Wesley willing to take risks, but never really to sacrifice his friends, only himself. Maybe his change is because HE'S SO ABUSED!!!!
Ooh, and we get Wesley with guns again! Kinky.
Alright, I must grudgingly admit Fred didn't irritate the hell out of me this episode. I'm not sure why exactly she didn't have a weapon at all in the beginning, but she did stick up for Wesley, even if she's too dense to realize Wesley's feelings - hopefully she'll be more aware after tonight's episode.
Gunn was vastly underused this week, though it was nice to see him kick some cyborg ninja butt along with Angel. Part of the problem with him having been defined as the muscle in previous seasons was that his combat ability was always trivialized compared to Angel. Good to see him hold his own today.
And in more grudging admittence, Eve didn't bother me as much this week either. She seemed much less perky this week than she has in the past. She's definitely in the role of the temptress - she has really good observations and advice, but she's definitely evil too. I mean, just look at the changes in Angel with her around - he's more angry, more defensive, and more agressive overall.
Finally, a very nice touch at end with Wesley calling his parents.
Oh, and I seriously cheered when Wesley told Fred to go. I feel much better now that I know I still can't stand her.
el-remmen
Moderator Emeritus
This was definitely the best episode so far this season.
THAT is what Angel *should* be like -dark and full of tough choices - like choosing between shooting your father and or letting your companion be hurt - Twists on what you think has been happening all along, doubt about choices made in the past (Angel in regards to Connor) and love triangles.
It was great. Angel is always better at being darker - while Buffy did well with occasional comedic episodes - this spin-off does better when it stays darker longer.
Oh, and I assume the robo-ninjas will lead up to this season's Big Bad - and just to prove that this episode realy was good, Spike did not annoy the crap out of me like he has done lately. I still think he should have stayed dead though.
THAT is what Angel *should* be like -dark and full of tough choices - like choosing between shooting your father and or letting your companion be hurt - Twists on what you think has been happening all along, doubt about choices made in the past (Angel in regards to Connor) and love triangles.
It was great. Angel is always better at being darker - while Buffy did well with occasional comedic episodes - this spin-off does better when it stays darker longer.
Oh, and I assume the robo-ninjas will lead up to this season's Big Bad - and just to prove that this episode realy was good, Spike did not annoy the crap out of me like he has done lately. I still think he should have stayed dead though.
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Great episode. I also think it wasthe best of the season. I'm glad it was Wes-centrix as Wes became my favorite character as of last season and I felt he had been underused to this point this season. He sure has become gun happy though hasn't he? WHat I found most surprising was that he has no qualms about killing humans (the arms dealer bodyguards at the beginning). Good bits of humor this episode as well - anyone who doesn't like Spike is just jaded. And I also like how it drew in bits of the previous story arc, as I always like to feel that there is a greater story at hand, even if the episode is a standalone.
And I also like how it drew in bits of the previous story arc, as I always like to feel that there is a greater story at hand, even if the episode is a standalone.
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Heretic Apostate
First Post
Wait, wait, wait...John Crichton said:
This is the guy whose rescue of Cordy (near the end of BtVs season 2) consisted of screaming like a girl? He was a wimp in BtVS, so how did he get so good at fighting?
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