Angel Finale

[Red Spire Press]

The idea that Lorn killed Lindsey on his own hadn't even occurred to me, but I really like it. It makes the scene even more painful.

Daniel

While an intriguing possibility, I still believe Angel was behind it. At the very least, he knew about it. Remember that when Eve asked where Lindsey was at the end, Angel said "Lindsey's not coming for you," knowing he would be killed.

 

[Cthulhudrew]

So, what for Angel(os), now? If they all die, well, so be it. He expected that. If he "lives", he can go see Connor, again... but then what? His whole purpose has been signed away...

... The promos for this episode made a big deal about Angel finding "his purpose", but I really didn't see it. Just to resist Wolf, Ram, and Hart? To wipe out the Senior Partners, their representatives on Earth?

If so, then he's served his purpose, and he can pass from the scene. Meanwhile, "Miss Cookie Dough" can eventually pop up as the new Vamp with a soul, and the remainders of both teams can join together and use Dawn to take the fight to whatever reality the bigger baddies occupy...

What I got from this episode is that Angel and the Gang finally came to the realization that the fight against is evil *is* the purpose. They're not doing it for the rewards that might possibly await them- Angel's dialog with Hamilton pretty much is about this exact thing. "I'll never understand why you people do this." "You people who don't care never will understand." (followed by one of the best lines, by Hamilton, "Yes, but we won't care.")

Angel signed away the Shanshu (how can you sign away a prophecy, though? Anyway) He signed it away because, this season more than any other, he has come to realize that he isn't fighting to become a human, he's fighting because its the right thing to do, and because he can. It's definitely been a gradual realization, but one that sank home this season more than any others, I think (and largely due to the Spike/Angel fighting for the Shanshu ordeal... sadly, I think Spike was largely wasted the latter half of the season, but I love Spike. Hope he gets a series.)

The others have come to this realization, too. Witness Gunn's discussion with Annie ("What would you do if I told you it wouldn't make a difference?" "I'd keep loading this truck.") Lorne realizes it- and he's at a point at the end of this season reminiscent of Angel's pre-Buffy days as a result. Spike realizes it- he's come to this point over the course of events since his Buffy days, as well as this season. Wes I think has known it longer than any of them, but it really sank in for him with Fred's death. He kept on fighting after that because he knew that was the thing to do.

That's one reason I think Lindsey had to die. Even if his "change of heart" had taken (and there are a number of times during the course of the series that lead me to believe Lindsey could have redeemed himself and taken another path), he hadn't come to the same realization. He's still living in a "fantasy" world ("You gave up your immortality for me. It's like a fantasy," he tells Eve when he's getting ready to go.) He is just fighting for the rewards he thinks he'll get- the girl, the firm, the glory. Not the reason to do it.

So whoever survives will continue the good fight- and I suspect, if they ever do another series or movie or whatnot that they all pull through. Illyria's just too tough to be killed by anything other than a Hamilton-strong demon; Angel and Spike are just tough (Angel may still have some Hamilton/Partner strength to boot), and Gunn- though I didn't always like the character, will probably pull through just because.

It's funny- I stuck through this series all the way (well, I had to stop watching mid-4th season, or whenever the Cordy/Connor thing happened) and always wanted it to be good. Despite a few misses this season (mostly at the end- the Spike/Angel Rome episode was bad, and the Black Thorn thing came too suddenly) this was a great season, made me want more. They really *got* what Angel should have been all along, and now it's over. They even got me to like Connor! (Like someone else said, if Connor had been like this all along, he'd have been cool.) Now it's all done. But what a way to go. Liked it.

 

[Cthulhudrew]

While an intriguing possibility, I still believe Angel was behind it. At the very least, he knew about it. Remember that when Eve asked where Lindsey was at the end, Angel said "Lindsey's not coming for you," knowing he would be killed.

Someone else pointed this out, and it's probably true. However, I tell myself that Angel didn't think *anyone* was going to make it through, so it still leaves the possibility open (and I really like the idea of Lorne doing it on his own- he's certainly shown himself capable of some unexpected actions this season).

I dig that it's vague enough that there are possibilities of different interpretations, though.

(BTW, one thing that's always bugged me. I don't recall them ever addressing that Lorne set Angel up to get killed in their first meeting- when he sent him off to meet the "guru" guy that was going to help him out. Did I miss something where they actually discussed it? It always struck me as pretty cutthroat from a guy who later turned out to be (mostly) a pussycat.)

 

[wolff96]

First off, wow.

I hate that it had to end, but that was one hell of a bang to go out on. The best exchange of the night was when Angel was talking to gang and said one would betray him. Spike instantly raises his hand. After Angel explains it, Spike's reply is, "Can I at least deny you three times?"

Well, that and the dragon line. Heh.

I want to take a poll. Who thinks they survived, and how much?

Illyria survived. It's more depressing that way. She is still incredibly powerful but now has absolutely no connection to anything and no reason to keep going. Gunn didn't have long to live anyway, Angel would have been target number one, and Spike is good... but not that good.

--------------

Personally, I'd like to see a spin-off with Faith, the Principle, and Willow. They travel around and do what they can. In the second season, something happens to the Principle. After that, Willow and Faith continue, supporting each other through the tough times. Together, eventually as a couple, fighting the good fight.

Now all we need is to free up Elisha Dushku... Oh, wait, no problem. If there is *any* justice in the world, True Calling should be dead in a season or so.

 

[Mouseferatu]

Regarding Angel "signing away" the Shanshu prophecy, has it occurred to anyone else that he may have signed a worthless piece of paper? The Circle didn't have to actually thwart the prophecy, assuming they even had the power to do so. They just had to make Angel think there was no hope, to serve their purposes. (And it didn't work, since Angel's finally realized, as someone else said, that the purpose is the fight, not the reward.)

Still, should we ever see Angel again, I don't think Shanshu is entirely out of the question.

 

[myrdden]

Angel signed away the Shanshu (how can you sign away a prophecy, though? Anyway)

I thought about that too. How do you sign away a prophecy? It's not a contract afterall. I think it was a ruse by the Circle to test Angel's fortitiude and desires one last time. I think it was left ambiguous enough that it could be interpreted either way.

In the end, Angel really did beleive he signed away his future and in doing so it gave him a clearer insight into his purpose.

Still mad the show is cancelled.

 

[myrdden]

Regarding Angel "signing away" the Shanshu prophecy, has it occurred to anyone else that he may have signed a worthless piece of paper? The Circle didn't have to actually thwart the prophecy, assuming they even had the power to do so. They just had to make Angel think there was no hope, to serve their purposes. (And it didn't work, since Angel's finally realized, as someone else said, that the purpose is the fight, not the reward.)

Still, should we ever see Angel again, I don't think Shanshu is entirely out of the question.

D'OH...you posted just before me.

 

[Tarrasque Wrangler]

So, what for Angel(os), now? If they all die, well, so be it. He expected that. If he "lives", he can go see Connor, again... but then what? His whole purpose has been signed away...

His reward was signed away, not his purpose. That was Angel & Co.'s final realization, that the good fight is what matters.

Buffy, of course, is all set up to become a vampire. She shared bkood with Dracula, so when she gets killed, or dies, she'll be back three nights later... And Dawn? Always bothered me that the Scoobies had The Key to The Universe, and never did diddly-squat with it... (and I can't help but wonder where Xander went).

Wrong and wrong. First off, Buffy did die after the Dracula episode, in the fifth season ender "The Gift". She did not rise as a vampire because, well, that's just not how it works in the Buffyverse. Vamp has to drain all your blood and give you a taste of his own. They did mention that Dracula worked differently, but I got the feeling it was more for an atmospheric, seduction thingy than a real mechanical difference. Anyway, the point is moot because she DID die later and DIDN'T rise as a vamp.

As for Dawn, her power was pretty much a one-shot deal. Basically, she still is the Key, but there's no door anymore. It was sealed when Buffy fell through it. And even if some portal somewhere existed that she could open, they'd have to kill her to open and close it - she's not a magic item they could just turn on and off at will.

And Xander? Didn't Andrew say something about him being in South America? I can't remember exactly where, but he was mentioned.

 

[Henry]

A few more thoughts:

-I think that Angel is still the originator of that plan. Between the statement to Eve, and Lorne telling Angel "after this... I'm out", I think he did exactly what Angel asked. Angel was also pleased that Lorne was out of it, because Lorne could NOT have stood against what they fought.

-I think Angel DID sign away his right to the prophecy. Keep in mind that the prophecy was "the Vampire with a soul" - it still doesn't have to be Angel - or Spike for that matter, even if they are the only two we know about. Armageddon is not yet here, according to the series, and there is time for a THIRD vampire to arise, even. Heck, for all we know, it could be Buffy two years from now. So what he's signing, ostensibly, is a compact that he will NOT play a part in the armageddon - I'm assuming his soul is forfeit or some such, so that he would no longer be, "the vampire with a soul." Well, guess what - he didn't play into the armageddon, he plans to die long before that.

 

[William Ronald]

I was impressed with the series finale on many levels.

The story of Angel, and of the entire Buffyverse, is one of redemption. Angel realized it is the fight against evil, not the hope of some utopia, that is his purpose. Wesley seemed to have realized this sometime ago, and his death has a tragic finality. On some level, I suspect Wes was reunited with Fred. It is clear that none of the various cults or even the heroes had all the answers, so perhaps part of Fred did survive after all.

It was because of Wesley that Illyria came to know compassion and regret. In a sense, Wesley was her redemption. The last moments with Wesley were very powerful, as was her attack on the wizard. The old wise one thought he saw a weeping girl, and was revealed as a fool. (There was a brief scene showing the old wizard's shock as "Fred" turned back into Illyria.)

It was surprising to see Connor, who also finally proved his true worth and showed signs of his true potential. (This is an improvement from one of the most unreliable, self-centered characters on television.)

Angel's rejection of the Shensu prophecy was a symbol of his willingness to fight, and sacrifice on behalf of the world. As such, it showed that he was worthy of the reward -- because it was the struggle, not the reward, that gave Angel meaning.

Lorne's part in the matter is a little harder to fathom, although I suspect Angel was behind Lindsey's death. It makes Lindsey's last words even more appropriate.

As for the battle, Gunn knew he had minutes to live from Illyria's statement. Angels words to Gunn were a very fitting cap to the series "Then make those minutes count." (The dragon line was priceless.)

My gut instincts tell me that Angel, Spike, and Illyria survived. In a way, this would be fitting. Two of them once rejected their humanity, but through magic regained their souls. One scorned humanity, but because of one remarkable man -- Wesley -- seemed to gain a soul. I don't know what the future holds for the Buffyverse, but it was a great adventure. Thanks to Joss Whedon for his hard work, and to the actors for making the fantastic seem real.