Animation: American and Japanese

[Skade]

In the Teen Titans thread Sulimo said:

God-awful...pandering to the anime crowd. At least going by the first 2 episodes.

I've noticed several remarks like this over the last few months, regarding anime as something less worthy than it's American equivalent.

Honest question, with no intention of attacking this post, why would anime influence be considered "pandering"?

Good animation is good regardless of whether it is Japanese or American. The show does use certain anime techniques (super deformed bodies, the tear and gasp images etc.) but it is defintly an American cartoon. For that matter American cartoons have their particular techniques (swirling stars, springy legs, anthropormorphic animals), does that mean that if a Japanese company made an anime using these elements it would be pandering to the American crowd?

For that matter, are shows like Cyborg 009, and Kikaider, who look more like the old Max Fleisher cartoons that helped influence early anime, considered too retro? or too American?`

 

[Tarrasque Wrangler]

I would say that anime is its own style now, almost a genre unto its own. That "pandering" line implies that it's still some kind of obscure niche, when it's probably the dominant mode of popular animation nowadays. Saying Teen Titans is "pandering to the anime crowd" is like saying that Star Wars is "pandering to the scifi crowd".

 

[ergeheilalt]

I for one, am starting to get tired of all the anime. Sure; its good - even great. There is just so much of it. I was disappointed in the anime aspect of Teen Titans; I was hoping for something similar to Batman or Superman.

I think the "pandering" comment was not so much about playing to a niche crowd; but rather, pandering to what is hip. I mean, two years ago, we had only a handful of anime shows. Cartoon Netword was basically Bugs, Hanna Barbara, etc; with Toonamie being the "niche" anime time slot (2 hours). Today anime is hot stuff and being carried by stores that only had Disney cartoons on the shelves. Teen Titans, IMO, would have been better realized if it were done in a "comic book-esque" fashion.

Erge

 

[s/LaSH]

It's interesting to try to define anime style, isn't it? Put Ghost In The Shell next to Pokemon, and then tell me what style is getting tired...

Now, as for Americans doing anime-style stuff: If they do it well, and it looks cool, then go ahead, I don't care. If they do it poorly, then it sucks and I don't watch it. I confess knowing virtually nothing about the background thereof, but a show titled 'Totally Spies' seems vaguely anime-esque to me yet isn't really all that good (although I have heard that one episode had Simon Templeman in it). That's something I'd avoid - it's a pander, as opposed to an actual adaptation of the 'style'. Which I think I mentioned is like saying 'the style of books', because it's rather general.

One thing I hate about anime, however, is the comedic things - giant sweatdrops, super-deformed faces, that kinda thing. This doesn't infect all anime, fortunately - or it's understated; DragonBall Z may have dramatic sweat, but it's in individual droplets rather than a bucket-sized swelling. I confess I felt that humanity was doomed when a recent Transformers series actually gave Predacons giant sweatdrops. We can all agree that the people involved should be shot, right?

Anyway, I don't care if it's Japanese or American - Japanese cartoons can be more mature and have cooler stand-alone images, while American cartoons can have a higher budget and animate more accurately and fluidly. That's the rough assessment I've made of the two styles. Now when they come together, you get really freaky cool stuff.

 

[jdavis]

Teen Titans is meant for a younger audience than Batman and Superman (which also had a lot of anime influence). For me the thing I like about anime is that is more realistic and not always slapstick oriented. That has nothing to do with drawing style or what's hip it is just more interesting to me. There is just not that many action oriented American cartoons around and when they do make one it's like the old GI Joe cartoons where everybody had three guns but nobody ever got shot. I wish they made more shows like the original Jonny Quest show. It's not like I don't like comedy stuff but lets face it they don't make stuff like the original Bugs Bunny cartoons anymore either, there is way too much Political Correctness now I guess.

Another thing is that there is just so much anime out there, there is just not one anime style.

 

[jdavis]

double post, oops

 

[2d6]

I confess I felt that humanity was doomed when a recent Transformers series actually gave Predacons giant sweatdrops. We can all agree that the people involved should be shot, right?

If you shoot the people involved, you loose all the satisfaction gained from dragging them out in the street for a good ol-fashioned caning.

 

[RyanL]

I think the implication is not that anime is less worthy, but rather that there is a growing contingent of American youth that reject any animation that they perceive as "too American" because of thier assumption that the Japanese style is superior by default.

In other words, you've got to make it look pseudo-Japanese in order to get kids to like it. I'm not sure I agree (Disney is still the best animation house in the world, IMO), but I think that's what they're getting at.

-Ryan

 

[Pants]

Teen Titans is meant for a younger audience than Batman and Superman (which also had a lot of anime influence). For me the thing I like about anime is that is more realistic and not always slapstick oriented. That has nothing to do with drawing style or what's hip it is just more interesting to me. There is just not that many action oriented American cartoons around and when they do make one it's like the old GI Joe cartoons where everybody had three guns but nobody ever got shot. I wish they made more shows like the original Jonny Quest show. It's not like I don't like comedy stuff but lets face it they don't make stuff like the original Bugs Bunny cartoons anymore either, there is way too much Political Correctness now I guess.

Another thing is that there is just so much anime out there, there is just not one anime style.

Agreed.
After watching Aqua Teen Hunger Force, Brak Show, and SeaLab, I'm convinced that American cartoons should stick to comedy, while Japanese cartoons can do the whole action thing.

 

[jdavis]

Agreed.
After watching Aqua Teen Hunger Force, Brak Show, and SeaLab, I'm convinced that American cartoons should stick to comedy, while Japanese cartoons can do the whole action thing.

The Fargate episode of Aqua Teens cracked me up. After I posted Saturday night I caught toonheads on Cartoon Network, they showed the Rabbit Season/Duck Season trilogy, man they really don't make them like they used too, funny stuff.

By the way some of the best anime is stuff they will never show on Cartoon Network (although they suprised me with Fooly Cooly).