Annoyed with City of the Spider Queen (SPOILERS)

[mmu1]

I've ran four sessions of this module, and my party is starting to get very frustrated - we've had six character deaths so far: One guy Ice-Stormed when low on hit points, two guys dropped to around -30 with Flamestrike, one guy falling prey to Poly Other while climbing, and falling 300 feet as a result (fish guts all over the place), one guy crisped by a Searing Light, and one dropped by Slay Living when he least expected it...

All this, and they still haven't really penetrated the most important sections of the drow outpost, although they did manage to clear out the barracks (bad call on their part as to which cave entrance to investigate) and kill the giant fiendish spider... They've basically been stuck in and around the main chasm for three sessions now.

The problem is that after finding large sections of their guard force slaughtered, the drow have a) Gotten justifiably paranoid, making the party's life a hell of a lot more difficult, and b)With the regular guards gone, they're now pulling out the bigger guns to go after the party.

Basically, the problem seems to be that if you play all the Drow down there at all intelligently (instead of just leaving them to sit on their butts in their assigned rooms unless told to go raid), they can easily mount overwhelmingly powerful responses to any party incursions, without even needing to use the most powerful NPCs, especially if they've been previously alerted. (and the module is designed so that it's basically a given that they will be).

Anyway... Help? Suggestions, insights, experiences with the module? I'm pretty much running most of the enemies as is (with some variety thrown in in terms of spell lists for some of the casters, the module gets terribly repetitive there), the party is larger than the 4 characters the game is supposedly designed for, they're 36 point-buy characters with good magical items, they have all the standard character roles well covered, and they're getting their butts kicked...

 

[Endur]

Just remind the players party deaths are normal for high level play.

Maybe give the party a magic item, such as a staff of resurrection (with X charges) that can be used by anyone, so if the cleric dies, somebody else can resurrect him. Ressurect is better than raise dead, because some of the possible deaths might not leave the body in raisable condition.

 

[Brisk-sg]

I started running the CotSQ a few months back, didn't get more then three sessions into it however due to some schedule changes for some of the players, putting it on hold. In those three sessions we haven't even gotten to the Outpost yet.

CotSQ is a meat grinder of an adventure. Very Lethal. I honestly think that is one of the intents of the module is to be very difficult and challenging from a tactical and combat angel. It is low on puzzles and roleplay, big on battle. It also gives good recommendations about how to move and reinforce the baddies throughout the module.

For the characters to succeed without massive character deaths, they will likely have to be bumped up in level or by able to consistently outthink the module/dm tactically. With how the module is written (not to mention intelligent DMs) that is difficult.

Also remember, even drow make mistakes. Don't forget to take into account the drow's knowledge of what the characters are doing or their location. Fog of War can effect the drow in many situations. You might want to limit any enemy scrying abilities early in the game to make the drow less tactically effective (can't remember if the Vampire Drow in charge of the outpost has any scrying abilities).


Good Luck
- Josh

 

[diaglo]

scry check.

scry is a class skill for some classes.

it is the fault of the DM and the players if they don't use it correctly.

 

[Piratecat]

I think the key for the party is going to be information. Prying eyes, clairvoyance, divination,... if your group is anything like my group, these are bound to make a huge difference in tactical readiness and their ability to strike where (and when) the enemy least expects it.

 

[Wraithdrit]

I just started a prologue to CotSQ a few weeks ago. I am starting the group out at 8th level and putting them through some of my own making before sicking them on the prepublished stuff. I did this so I could hook them better into the module and so I could give them time to gel before they are faced with the seriously henious challenges of CotSQ. So far they are gelling well, but I have told them repeatedly that this is a KILLER campaign and if they don't use thier heads they will get waxed. This just puts more emphasis on that for me.

What to do for your PCs? Nothing. But be sure that as mentioned above the fog of war is affecting the NPCs as well. If the PCs are foolish enough to wade in, waste all energy and not leave anything for concealing themselves, concealing their camps, or getting the heck out of dodge, then they are getting what they deserve. It sounds more like they are getting through the minors well enough and dieing to major combatants at really bad times. Luck does play into this, but also set up needs to be considered. If I am the major villain of this set up, if people are cutting off the extremities of my empire, I am not going to keep putting more troops in after the threat after a certain point. Instead fortify the positions further in and pull back a bit. That will give the PCs the chance to rest and be the aggressors. Be sure to balance agression on the NPCs side with a good balance of being attacked. IE let the PCs get the iniative on where a few of these battles take place.

Also nothing says the Party has to go all this alone. If they are really taking a beating, give them some help. There are potential allies all through the module. If the PCs are too quick on the draw and kill the allies rather then use them to thier advantage, then I would say they are getting what they deserve. =)

- Wraith

 

[Sniktch]

My group was starting to get frustrated before they made a break-through and struck a deal with the archmage of the outpost. But I think they're going about it all wrong - too many frontal assault tactics.

What the adventure requires is brains AND brawn - the brains to use stealth and scrying to find out what you're up against and pick your fights as carefully as possible, and then the brawn to carry out the plan. My group's tactics keep changing through time and the going has gotten a bit easier now that they've gotten used to it (except for that unlucky banshee wail last session - only 2 PC's passed the Fort save )

 

[Wraithdrit]

Do me a favor, please do not post any game related info in this thread. Never know when a player could be looking. =) I know, shouldn't have to say it, and wish it wasn't the case that some players wander where they shouldn't. But temptation is what it is.

Thanks,
Wraith

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

Brute force and ignorance cause more character deaths than all other factors combined.

It sounds like you're running the module intelligently (as you should), and if the PCs are of appropriate levels, then perhaps they should get the hint and change tactics.

 

[Cartolis]

I really like the cotsq module, but Omg is it a meat grinder.

I was running 2 of my friends through it, but we have stopped due to the multiple deaths.

in any case I have come up with a campaign that will lead back to the module after getting to level 13 or so.

all the people that I have talked to said that unless they had 7-8 pc's, starting at level 10 was just too low.

Gonna try this and see how it goes.