Annoyed with D&D Game Day Characters

And let me vent more about this adventure and the pregens.

For god's sake, hand out some healing potions!!! And not just cure lights. everyone should have a cure moderate.

Whoever did these pregens couldnt not ever have run a one-off adventure.

Design Issue: for one-offs, make sure there are plenty of healing potions to go around.

Why? Because if you dont, then the cleric is stuck healing all day and cant ever actually cast any of his cool spells that make him feel like a cleric. so that pc never has any fun.

Giving the PCs plenty of healing helps move thorugh the adventure, since you never rest in a one-off gameday style adventure so you gotta have the resources to get straight through. Plus it lets the cleric actually have fun. No wonder eveyrone hates playing clerics, when you get crap like that.

And how about some actual gear that adventurers would have--sunrods anyone? alchemist's fire? how about more than 20 arrows? or maybe even some gear for the rogue. a wand for the mage, or maybe some simple scrolls. heck, 3E is all about spellcasters being loaded up on scrolls and potions for things that they dont want to memorize.

you need to make pregens that require little to no tweaking. these pregens were so lame.

Clark
 

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Orcus said:
And let me vent more about this adventure and the pregens.

For god's sake, hand out some healing potions!!! And not just cure lights. everyone should have a cure moderate.

Whoever did these pregens couldnt not ever have run a one-off adventure.

Clark

The one Bill ran today was the only one that didn't end in TPK at the store we were at. A little healing would have been great, but the cleric pregen was pretty stacked out as far as turning undead and healing went.

And I'm pretty sure he was TRYING to kill us. The sadness on his face when the rogue (me!) managed to disable to gargoyle trap (amazing luck!) was priceless.

But yeah, they were really awful pregens. What's worse... We had to use them again (randomly alotted) for the adventure Bill had waiting for us for 'round 2'.
 

Orcus said:
The flameskull encounter is whacked.

I agree. My PCs got through barely, and the wizard wasted his compliment of spells here. The wight was nothing.

Having the flameskull hover out or reach of weapons made this encounter a killer. With the damage reduction bludgeoning it made him virtually immune to weapons, since no one had a sling. Sure, the flameskull could be hit with reach weapons, which no one was given. Add in the immunity to fire..

I did have a TPK, but it was because of the hellcat. The light source walked in the room first, was dropped, leaving light throughout the room. A cryptic hint that light might be bad would have been good in the adventure somewhere.

I wonder who designed the PCs? I suspect they came from the RPGA, which means from the content manager who quit. The RPGA is notorious for badly designed fastplay characters.
 

Orcus said:
For god's sake, a Paladin with Cha 10. And AC 16. Come on.

If the idea is to showcase a paladin, how in the world does that achieve the goal?

I'm still fuming.

Clark
That Paladin surely sucked. We only had five players, so as the player of the Wizard, I controlled the Paladin as an NPC since nobody wanted him. We called him 'Martyrus the Pious'. His only real character trait was stepping in front of attacks to take the blow...and yet he never died!

The main reason we survived is that the Cleric turned or rebuked everything except the Wight (we killed that), the Wizard (killed that too), and the Hellcat (Ray of Enfeeblement shot it for 9 Strength--yay me!).
 

Orcus said:
Poorly designed adventure, poorly prepared pregens, they never posted the "guidelines" to write your own adventure for the game day, and it didnt even have good tie ins of the retailers (for isntance, the was a suggestion that the adventure had something to do with ravenloft, but nothing in the adventure really linked that up). the retailer kit was crappy and it was "limited" so not every story that wanted them got them.

I run Necromancer Games. I supported my local game store. I volunteered to be a guest DM for the game day. i recruited 4 other DMs. I got people pumped. I brought in over $200 worth of Necro give away items for the day. But the CRAP that WotC put out was pathetic. This was D&D FREAKING GAMEDAY!!!! ONCE A YEAR!!!! THE CHANCE TO HELP NEWBIES GET INVOLVED AND TO HELP RETAILERS KEEP D&D A VIABLE AND VISIBLE PRESENCE AND THAT WAS IT?!?!?! A JOKE!

It sounds like someone had the idea for "D&D World Gameday", and someone approved it as the great marketing idea it is, but they then failed to allocate the resources needed to do a really good job.

Which is totally unacceptable. The single best form of marketing WotC have for this game is so-called 'evangelical' marketing from existing gamers. D&D Gameday is a brilliant way to tap into that, but it needs supported, and it needs supported properly. If it's a lame day, it does more harm than good.

I was obvious that no one spent any real time making the pregens. I mean, I dont even know if the person who made the pregens actually plays D&D. I find that impossible to believe.

And the adventure, it could not possibly have been playtested with those pregens. Not by anyone that actually plays D&D.

My understanding is that a 'good' marketing guy needs to know a fari amount about the product he's selling, but doesn't need to be a true technical expert. So, the guy responsible for D&D Gameday had probably played a few light games, but may well not have ever created a character, and had almost certainly never actually run a game.

But, really, how hard can these things be, right? So, he sat down with the rules, and whatever computerised character generator Wizards have hidden away, and put together some characters. And he sat down and put together a simple adventure that, technically, works.

Then, to make it a really good marketing kit, he put together the package of goodies for people to get. 'Cos it's the free toys that people remember, isn't it? (The fact that they didn't produce enough was a glitch - I'm sure they will do better next year.)

The problem is, when presented to people who know the game well, the flaws in that approach really become apparent. We all know that the toys are nice, but they're beside the point. What matters are the characters and, crucially, the adventure.

Edit: Having looked at Wizards.com a bit further, it looks like they did have Rich Baker put together the adventure. So, I don't know quite what happened there. I guess they had him do the adventure seperately from the creator of the PreGens, when for a one-off they really should be created together.

And no good tie ins for retailers at all.

Right, here's how Wizards can better spend their marketing dollars for D&D Gameday:

Each year, have the design group (or, hell, subcontract it to Paizo - they're the experts) to produce a short D&D adventure, suitable for about 4 hours of play, start to finish. It should present the 'iconic' D&D experience, which means a low-level dungeon crawl, using the Core Rules only, and make it exciting. Package it up with 6-8 pregenerated characters suitable for use with the adventure, and make those characters similarly iconic - clear representatives of their class, good at one or two things each, and not using any funky rules if they can be avoided.

Debut the adventure at D&D Gameday, and encourage as many DMs to run as many games in as many stores as possible. In addition, produce the adventure as a 'real' D&D module, with proper artwork, cover, maps, and all the rest, including those pregen characters. And, for the rest of the year, give a copy of that adventure away free with every "Dungeon Master's Guide" that is sold. (And, each year, produce a new adventure to give away, and make the previous year's adventure available as a free download at Wizards.com.)

At the same time, develop a set of fast-play rules, which present the minimal ruleset, a micro-adventure, and some 1st level PreGens. Give this away free to anyone who wants one at D&D Gameday, and make it freely available to download at Wizards.com.

Next, produce a big poster, or a few big posters for retailers to display in their windows for the month before Gameday. And some sort of small promotion for everyone who takes part in a game. Hell, give the player the mini they used for their PC that day. (And, ideally, offer a 10% discount on all core rulebooks sold that day. Or, even more insidious - a free minis Starter Box with every PHB sold.)

Finally, to encourage DMs to run the game, don't bother with gimmicks and nonsense. Give every DM who runs a game a voucher redeemable for a 10% discount on any one purchase of WotC product, any time in the next year. We're your best customers, so reflect that. What's more, by arranging it like that, the more we spend, the more we save, but also the more you make. (If 10% discounts would reduce margin too far, reduce the amount. But 10% is a nice round number.)

The thing is, as we all know the fun from this game comes not from the use of the minis, or the fun little sticker, or the free pen, or any of the other things that marketing guys are really good at thinking up to put in promotional samples. The run comes from playing the game, so that's where the effort is needed - a really good adventure, really good pregen characters, and, if possible, some sort of 'shared experience' across the player base for early adventures. So, give away your "The Caves of Chaos" adventure free with the DMG, and then when people talk about how they dealt with the strange little 'dog men' they'll wax nostalgic, and head on down to your next Gameday, cash in hand. Or something.

HERE IS MY PLEDGE: NEXT YEAR, I WILL WRITE A FREE ADVENTURE FOR D&D GAMEDAY AND MAKE IT AVAILABLE ON OUR WEBSITE AND I WILL TAKE THE GAMEDAY PREGENS AND TWEAK THEM TO BE ACTUALLY PLAYABLE PREGENS!!! Then we can call it Necro Gameday.

That would be cool. ENWorld should do something similar. If Wizards are going to drop the ball, let's pick it up for them.

By the way, I say this loving WotC. I love the people there. I think they have been doing great stuff recently. I love their products the last year or so. Which makes this disappointment all the more surprising and troubling. Its like they didnt even bother...

Indeed. It's actually good when people call Wizards out on a poor job with D&D Gameday (at least in their opinion). It means they care, which ultimately is good for the hobby, and good for WotC's bottom line, even if only in the tiny way that D&D contributes.
 
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delericho said:
Give every DM who runs a game a voucher redeemable for a 10% discount on any one purchase of WotC product, any time in the next year. We're your best customers, so reflect that. What's more, by arranging it like that, the more we spend, the more we save, but also the more you make. (If 10% discounts would reduce margin too far, reduce the amount. But 10% is a nice round number.)

This isn't realistic. The hobby game market isn't set up to handle coupons. The stores would have to devote resources many don't have, and many aren't willing to set up (especially for a single coupon) to process these. Setting up a system for handling coupons requires a logistical system that isn't in place, and this would be the only time it would be used in the industry, meaning the expenditure wouldn't be worthwhile for the retailer or distributors (here, spend $1000 this year and you'll generate traffic worth an additional $400 on average).

The best way of handling this logisitcally is to have the coupon redeemable through an online or mail order company (now that WotC is out of that business). Not a good idea to go around the retailers who are the ones running this event.

That would be cool. ENWorld should do something similar. If Wizards are going to drop the ball, let's pick it up for them.

Hmmm, that sounds familiar, where did I hear that suggestion? ;)
 

I didn't particpate- I didn't have the time...but judging from this thread, I'm glad I didn't waste my time!

Right, here's how Wizards can better spend their marketing dollars for D&D Gameday:

I agree with most of what you posted, but I'd make one change- make the Pregen section HUGE. Include at least one Pregen from each of the campaign settings currently in print, and even something from each of the Complete (or similar books)...and with notation as to the source of the unusual PC. (While the array of choices might be confusing, a good DM can help guide the new players in making their choices.)

Why?

I've found that when introducing players to the game, it works best when you mix experienced players with the n00bs. Their experience helps keep things running: they can answer questions as easily as the DM can; their play serves as a guideline; their enthusiasm can be infectuous.

And by giving the players- especially those experienced (and possibly jaded) players who have deeper knowledge of the game- all of those choices, you'll not only attract them to the game, you'll also help cross market those other products to the less experienced players who will get to see them in action. Its kind of like how nearly every major car company has a sports car or some other exotic, limited-production vehicle in their line. Not many people buy them, but their style, romance and sex appeal help get people in the door...and that's what makes them so valuable to the company.

IOW, the n00b who plays the fighter on D&DGD alongside an Artificer, a Divine Mind, a Soulborn or Shadow Caster would get to see a glimmer of the deeper workings of the game and might just have a "Kewl!" moment.
 

Dannyalcatraz said:
I've found that when introducing players to the game, it works best when you mix experienced players with the n00bs. Their experience helps keep things running: they can answer questions as easily as the DM can; their play serves as a guideline; their enthusiasm can be infectuous.

The first year they had two adventures that were standard. They used the adventure from the D&D Basic Kit for new players (easily playble in under an hour, even with new players) and the beginning adventure from the Eberron Campaign Setting.* IMO, this was a good set up. Have a beginning game to get the new players interested, then a "normal" game designed to give them the normal experience and have something for the experienced players to play.

Also, one thing to remember is that WotC actively encourages running your own adventures. The signup sheet even has a check mark for doing so.

However, one thing I think that would make this event a success would be an iconic adventure. This day should be about the shared experience. I'm suprised WotC hasn't pulled out the stops to try to get a quality adventure that everyone will remember and talk about having played in. Imagine we were all working with a blank slate and could talk about having played in the 2006 Worldwide D&D Gameday adventure "The Tomb of Horrors" (the iconic TPK adventure for the experienced players) or the beginning adventure "The Village of Hommlet."

"Yeah, we made it through the Tomb. Two out of 8 players walked out, and we only had 5 hit points between us, and I was insane."

"The halfling was eaten by a giant toad before we even entered the keep."

They should focus on an interesting, but straightforward adventure. Give a few colorful personalities, a few interesting combat encounters and at least one encounter designed to allow interesting roleplaying opportunities. Maybe even suggest further adventures, leaving new players wanting to know what comes next and having DMs come up with followup scenarios (like many did with Hommlet).

Thinking about it, the Dungeon adventure "Chimes at Midnight" would be a great adventure for the iconic status. It might need to be cut back a bit to fit in a 4 hour slot.

*Looking back at this, it's clear that WotC has never really taken this seriously, which has been there general attitude towards approved play. The inaugural 30th anniversary games day and they borrow two adventures from elsewhere. They also promise pregenerated characters for the Eberron adventure and fail to deliver.
 
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Orcus said:
And how about some actual gear that adventurers would have--sunrods anyone? alchemist's fire?

All that stuff was apparently with the cleric. I don't why my dwarf needed a sunrod, but he had one. And 2 flasks of acid, and some alchemist's fire, and holy water.

Our group dispatched the flameskull with no difficulty, but I'm guessing it's because the judge didn't know how to run it. I've never seen the stats for one, and don't know what they can do (other than that they're immune to lots of stuff), but from everyone's else's experience, it seems we got off pretty easy.

[Looking at the thread a little more closely -- holy crap! It has DR/bludgeoning? Not the way our judge ran it!].

Our judge also didn't seem to notice that the dread warriors were undead. I even made a Knowledge (religion) check as a hint. He didn't pick up on it, and I just let it go (it was mostly kids at the table, and I didn't want to introduce them to lawyering).
 

Glyfair said:
This isn't realistic.

<good reason snipped>

Point taken. However, I'm inclined to think Wizards should try to offer some incentive to DMs (and particularly good DMs) to spend the day working for them. And I think the usual marketing gimmicks of free pens/stickers/t-shirts just fall short.

Hmmm, that sounds familiar, where did I hear that suggestion? ;)

Quite. And it was a good suggestion then, too. The difference is, next year we should actually do it. :)
 

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