Annoying Player who seems to mean well... sorta

[DonTadow]

THe last thread I ran

http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=142988

contained a problem about what I assumed was a conflict between two characters whom appeared to be getting out of hand. After talking with both and following the enworld advice, I discovered that Sadiyah, the new girl, had no malice or ill intention against Alexandra she was just playing her character well. But it seemed Alexandra was taking her character far too seriously.

To be honest, if this was the only thing, I wouldn't care, but it seems like every weeks I am talking to her or emailing her about something. Now, this is not some d and d player who does not know the rules. Shes 33 years old and has been playing for 12 years.

Which is making me even more annoyed. I can't kick her out of the group, because everyone loves her husband's character, but in private everyone in the group aside from her husband and the new girl have told me that they understand she's playing her character but the character is annoying and a hinderious to progression at times.

---things the character has done that have annoyed me
- We use the magic point system from the EOM, she consistently (every level) creates a spell that abuses the system and doesn't follow the rules of the book. I have two other magic users in the group and I never get the spells from them I reject from her.

- This is my number one problem, she consistently tries to break the rules of the game and will not let it drop once told that she is not allowed. She will then attempt toa rguem why she should be allowed. But it is not an agressive arguement, so its more of annoyance than anger.

ex . This weekend, she tried to sneak in a fireball spell that had no save for the victims. When I asked her how she came up with that, she said "we'lll im casting it at the ground and I only have to make the touch attack on the ground ". It didn't even make sense to the novice players in the room whom looked at her as if she was crazy.

ex, She wanted to cast a spell in a crowded bar where magic is forbidden. The spell she wants to cast requires a touch range, and both vocal and movement. She proceeded to argue for 2 minutes as to why she should be able to cast the spell "on everyone in the room" without them noticing one by one. It was silly.

- Her priestess never agrees with the rest of the party. Which is fine and dandy, but sometimes it seems she goes against the party when its completely against her allignment and her church. Case in point, she killed an NPC 12 year old girl this weekend to kill a couple of cr 3 bugs. She also has an intelligent weapon that contains an avator of her diety, yet she attempts to go against it whenever she can. She becomes upset when she loses the ego save and then has to do what the weapon wants.

- Ive had to ask her twice now to roll her damage with american dice.

- If somthing doesnt go her way, she consinstently brings it up. Case in point, this weeken the pcs had a chance to investigate a orphanage or escort a carvan. There were only two pcs with her when she askedto look around the orphanage. One of which could not say anything the other didn't like her and paid her no mind. All week we have had to listen to her talk about how we should have checked the orphanage and "no one listens to her".


Has anyone ever dealt with a character like this, because there is nothing like this characterization in the DMG 2. How do i handle this? I am at my wits end because it seems like every week i spent an hour dealing with her problems that takes away from time i could be prepping for the game?

 

[The Lost Muse]

If it is her current character that is annoying, and she is mis-representing her deity through actions which violate the tenants and whatnot of her faith, kill her off. If necessary use re-incarnate and turn her into a squirrel. Keep the pressure on until she either has to make a new, less annoying, character; or she takes a hint. As for the broken spells, she is playing a priestess, right? A little "divine inspiration" on your part would be a good in-game way to deal with that.

 

[Buttercup]

- Her priestess never agrees with the rest of the party. Which is fine and dandy, but sometimes it seems she goes against the party when its completely against her allignment and her church. Case in point, she killed an NPC 12 year old girl this weekend to kill a couple of cr 3 bugs. She also has an intelligent weapon that contains an avator of her diety, yet she attempts to go against it whenever she can. She becomes upset when she loses the ego save and then has to do what the weapon wants.

If she violates the tenets of her alignment and her deity, take her powers away. Whenever she makes a judgment like the one you mention above, give her a vision from her deity, in which she is chastised. Have the deity assign some sort of atonement task. Heck, take away some or all of her spells until she completes the task. If she balks, give her another vision, and take away more powers. If she still balks, have her deity cast her out permanently. You can then go all sympathetic on her and "allow" her to roll up a new character.

Ive had to ask her twice now to roll her damage with american dice.

If this happens again, start making all her rolls for her. After a session or two of this, I think she'll take the hint.

If somthing doesnt go her way, she consinstently brings it up. Case in point, this weeken the pcs had a chance to investigate a orphanage or escort a carvan. There were only two pcs with her when she askedto look around the orphanage. One of which could not say anything the other didn't like her and paid her no mind. All week we have had to listen to her talk about how we should have checked the orphanage and "no one listens to her".

You can do your best to avoid putting her in situations like this, but I realize that no game is ever completely predictable or controllable. That being the case, you might just have to tell her that the reason no one is listening to her character is that said character is obnoxious.

Have you tried talking to her husband about this? One of my players once rolled up an uber-obnoxious halfling, and after two sessions his wife (who is also one of my players) told him to tone it down. He did, much to the relief of me and the rest of the players.

Good luck!

 

[delericho]

- Ive had to ask her twice now to roll her damage with american dice.

Quick question: what are American dice? How do they differ from any other dice?

As regards the player, all I can recommend is that you sit down with her (preferably privately) and have a serious talk with her about the issues. You need to explain the problems, explain why they're problems, and ask her to help you resolve them.

As regards breaking the rules of the game, you need to draw a clear distinction between those cases where she's breaking the rules as written (where you can simply tell her to go away and read the rules again), and those areas where she might have found a weakness in the written rules (that's what the no-save fireball sounds like - spells that require touch attacks generally don't allow saves). In the latter case, you should be spelling out, preferably in writing, the modifications you're making to the rules as written. Otherwise, what she's doing isn't unreasonable, just annoying. If something is rules-legal, it's hardly unreasonable to try to use it.

As regards the rules arguments, you need to make it clear that, as DM, your rulings are final. You'll hear an appeal, sure, but arguing for 2 minutes is just not acceptable. For most players, such a statement is unnecessary, but obviously not in this case. (Incidentally, you were absolutely right about the bar situation, IMO)

Where she's playing the character in a manner contrary to her alignment, you are within your rights to warn her that continued action in this vein will cause an alignment shift. If that shift takes her outside the allowed range for Clerics of her deity, she loses all spells until she returns to the fold.

One thing: I do not like this intelligent item she has. This sounds like an item where the DM (you) can basically tell the character what to do at almoast any time, and then enforce it with ego rolls. There's a thread about overruling PC actions. Basically, my view is that the DM should very very rarely do so, hence my dislike of the item.

 

[Rodrigo Istalindir]

Quick question: what are American dice? How do they differ from any other dice?

I think there is an extraneous 'u' in British dice.

 

[reveal]

Have you tried talking to her as a group to air your greivances? Don't start looking for "in-game" solutions to this because pretty soon she'll think you're out to get her, which would be correct.

You need to address this and soon as it's taking away from most peoples enjoyment of the game.

 

[amethal]

I think there is an extraneous 'u' in British dice.

The extra u in British dice is there to make them more stylish and elegant, and has the happy side-effect of making it easier to recognise untrustworthy foreigners.

However, I think in this case the player was using Cuban dice (which are illegal in the USA), not British ones.

If you are not having fun, have a talk with the player and try to get her to improve her attitude. Hopefully, she isn't being deliberately disruptive.

 

[DonTadow]

Have you tried talking to her as a group to air your greivances? Don't start looking for "in-game" solutions to this because pretty soon she'll think you're out to get her, which would be correct.

You need to address this and soon as it's taking away from most peoples enjoyment of the game.

I've talked to her in person, over the phone and through email but not with the rest of the group. I didn't want it to seem like an intervention or we were ganging up on her, but that is what its coming out to be.

Quick question: what are American dice? How do they differ from any other dice?

She was rolling dice with japanese characters on them, which no one but her can read. Ironically she has stopped (at least last weak), now I don't know if thats because she finally is adhereing to the rules or the fact that the new girl can read japanese.

those areas where she might have found a weakness in the written rules (that's what the no-save fireball sounds like - spells that require touch attacks generally don't allow saves). In the latter case, you should be spelling out, preferably in writing, the modifications you're making to the rules as written. Otherwise, what she's doing isn't unreasonable, just annoying. If something is rules-legal, it's hardly unreasonable to try to use it.

The rules for evoke spells in the Elements of Magic rulebook says that it requires a reflex save or a touch attack, whichever makes sense. My interpretation (and everyone else in the group) is if you are attacking a person, you can make a touch attack, but if you are attacking an area in hopes of getting a bunch of people the people get a reflex save. She wanted it so that she could attack the ground with a touch attack and thus the people don't get a reflex save because she'd already attacked the ground.

One thing: I do not like this intelligent item she has. This sounds like an item where the DM (you) can basically tell the character what to do at almoast any time, and then enforce it with ego rolls. There's a thread about overruling PC actions. Basically, my view is that the DM should very very rarely do so, hence my dislike of the item.

The weapon is different. It's one of the six artifact weapons that the game's plot revolves around. I do not play out the artifact weapons if they take over or win the ego. The player is suppose to play out the weapon based on the handout the player received when they decided to accept the weapon .

This is another issue that has irked me about the character. I don't want to tell anyone how to play their character, which is why I prewrote up bios, tendencies, missions and allignments for each of the six weapons. One of my players has had one such weapon for 20 sessions.

When the group finds the weapon. I ask whom would like to have weapon. I ask them to read the bio of the weapon and talk to others n the group whom have such waeapon and see if its something they would do. the weapons are extremely powerful, and thus the soul merging is to balance them out. There is a 24 hour bonding process with the weapon. They don't have to give me an answer until next session. (representing the bonding process). If its not for them they tell me, and we say that weapon did not bond well.

I know how evasive soul possession can be, and we had a three week break which would have gave her a long time to research the weapon and talk to the other player. She never contacted the other player. the player contacted her and Alexandra replied "I don't need any help understanding it, I've had inteligent weapons before I' know what I"m doing". Really offending the other player. I sent an email to Alexandra after this asking her is she sure she wants it. She said yes.

WHich is why its so upetting now that shes going against her at every will if she said she successfully bonded with the weapon. Two days ago, after the weapon took over when she killed the girl, Alexandra sent me an email apologizing and saying she had not read the material of the weapon and did not know that the weapon was so "good".

 

[The_Universe]

Have you tried talking to her as a group to air your greivances? Don't start looking for "in-game" solutions to this because pretty soon she'll think you're out to get her, which would be correct.

You need to address this and soon as it's taking away from most peoples enjoyment of the game.

Don't do that - then she'll think you're "ganging up" on her. Which, as a point of fact, you would be.

Attempt to deal with it directly with her both openly and privately - just let her know that she's been contravening her deity and alignment relatively frequently, and that's going to start having consequences in the game. Enforce the consequences, and unless she's completely unreasonable, she'll get the hint.

Alternatively, if you'd prefer not to deal with her privately (probably the best idea, but you sure don't have to) make an announcement to the whole group that alignment and faith are important in the game, and you've noticed a lot of people ignoring their characters' religious tenets and/or alignment. There will be consequences, and you will enforce them.

 

[reveal]

Don't do that - then she'll think you're "ganging up" on her. Which, as a point of fact, you would be.

Attempt to deal with it directly with her both openly and privately - just let her know that she's been contravening her deity and alignment relatively frequently, and that's going to start having consequences in the game. Enforce the consequences, and unless she's completely unreasonable, she'll get the hint.

Alternatively, if you'd prefer not to deal with her privately (probably the best idea, but you sure don't have to) make an announcement to the whole group that alignment and faith are important in the game, and you've noticed a lot of people ignoring their characters' religious tenets and/or alignment. There will be consequences, and you will enforce them.

The problem is he has tried to deal with her privately. It hasn't worked.