[Anti-Edition-War]Common Ground

[diaglo]

Those player and DM roles haven't really changed much in 30 years. One can put on the viking hat running 4E as easily as one can hand the reigns to the PCs in 1E, and vice versa. Perhaps more tellingly, and ultimately more illustrative of the point, no matter what the edition, it is the players that ask the DM "What do we see?" and the DM that, upon responding, asks, "What do you do?"

i am not trying to disagree, but i think this is part of Fenes said already.

the referee and players' roles have changed over the editions.

it really depends on if you use the rules as guidelines.

part of this is party size.

cutting back on the hirelings, henchmen, and camp followers.

and cutting back on the number of players. 20 is no longer optimal.

which means you don't need a caller for the group. players can act as callers for their own PC.

but it also means that combat gets a bit more hectic. if the group isn't on the same page with tactics.

 

[xechnao]

20 is no longer optimal.

wait what?

 

[Fenes]

Yeah. We're playing 3.0, but we've got a tons of hirelings in the party, are at "name level", and more concerned with politics than killing stuff and taking their things. So, it's closer to a "standard" 1E-campaign in some aspects, despite using 3.0 rules.

 

[diaglo]

I'd consider the cleric one of the most changed classes between editions. From early "walking bandaid" to the powerhouse of the party in 3.X
But again that could vary a lot depending on playstyle.

you forgot turning them into "walking bandaid".

originally clerics didn't get spells until lvl 2.

 

[Nymrohd]

I think ale and whores have been with us in every edition.

 

[Reynard]

the referee and players' roles have changed over the editions.

it really depends on if you use the rules as guidelines.

I don't see it. While the particulars of their interactions have changed because the rules of the game have changed, the relationship remains the same. D&D did not, for example, go the route of the "forge" style games, where players subsume some of the rights and responsibilities of the DM -- there is, and always has been, a distinct difference between one side of the screen and the other.

 

[diaglo]

I don't see it. While the particulars of their interactions have changed because the rules of the game have changed, the relationship remains the same. D&D did not, for example, go the route of the "forge" style games, where players subsume some of the rights and responsibilities of the DM -- there is, and always has been, a distinct difference between one side of the screen and the other.

players don't subsume rights to the referee

 

[Reynard]

players don't subsume rights to the referee

Wierd. My brain was on auto-pilot. I meant "assume".

 

[The Shaman]

I think ale and whores have been with us in every edition.

Are we talking about for characters or for players?

 

[the Jester]

Are we talking about for characters or for players?

Characters; some players started too young to drink & whore.