Anti-Illithid tactics

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Mind Flayers are not really that dangerous in melee combat, because they lack the Strenth or Base Attack Bonus of a Fighter with equal HD.
Additionally, their AC isn`t that great, so they can often be sliced to death before they have a chance to extract your brain. The Fighter should be sure to have a light weapon (Shortsword?) handy for grappling, possibly improved by a Greater Magic Weapon from the Cleric (better attack rolls).
Remember you have one grapple check for every attack you have, so use it if caught...

Remember that Mind Flayer only have Charm Monster and Suggestion as their "Mind Control" Abilities, so their thralls only see them as friends giving good ideas - nothing you can`t do yourself (your wizard has Charm Monster!).
If some of them have Domination abilities (maybe some advanced Illithids), a Magic Circle against Evil can avoid the greatest dangers.
Dispel Magic can break the Charms and Suggestions.

If your wizard has Magic Missile, remember you may roll for Spell Resistance for each Missile - even if it does not cause much damage, it helps...

Mustrum Ridcully

 

[Zhure]

The one time we faced one, the Psychic Warrior (me) carried in a Deeper Darkness pre-cast and had Vigilance running. Chop Suey. But it was touch and go as the Barbarian was in constant plank mode from the stun effects of the mind blast.

Greg

 

[The Blue Elf]

Our group will soon be facing Illithids. Now, I think we are particularly weak to face them. This is our party composition:

- Clr8
- Ftr8
- Mnk1/Wiz5/Elem Savant2
- Rog5 (unsure)

Obviously, SR 25 and Mind Blast at will make us a little nervous. Also, as I understand Illithids surround themselves with thralls for protection. This make an encounter with one, let alone two, Illithids difficult for our level.

The wizard is more of a "utility" mage, and is very weak physically (the "nerd" type of mage). The combat spells he knows are mostly fire/evocation types (Fireball, Explosive Cascade, etc.) Here are relevant 3rd and 4th level spells:

3rd

Blink
Dispel Magic
Fireball
Gaseous Form
Haste
Invisibility Sphere
Scintillating Sphere (MoF)
Suggestion

4th

Charm Monster
Dimension Door
Explosive Cascade (MoF)
Greater Mark of Earth (BoEM)
Improved Invisibility
Minor Globe of Invulnerability
Zone of Speed (BoEM)

Very few spells do not allow SR, so direct or damaging spells will not be effective. The wizard needs to roll 18 or better to beat the Illithid's SR (the cleric 17 or better).

The only relevant feats the wizard has is Extend Spell and Energy Substitution (fire), so they are not directly useful.

The Zone of Speed spell is interesting, as it does not allow for saves nor SR. The wizard can "set" a movement speed within a 20' diameter sphere. This could be used to "pin" the Illithid in a spot for up to 10 rounds using a setting of "1 foot per round", if it is centered on it. Reach weapons could be used to attack it, without fear from it's Mind Blast and Extract abilities. Of course, any thralls would have to be dealt with.

The Will +9 save would make Charm Monster difficult, especially during combat, since it would get a +5 to save, and SR would have to be overcome.

As I see it, Illithids should be attacked at range. Closing with them would be difficult, considering fighters have poor will saves against Mind Blast. The Rogue should be effective at this.

I am not sure of how the Cleric may help. Perhaps bolstering the fighter against Mind Blast somehow? He is neutral, but does not animate dead. So undead tactics will probably not be used.

So, have any of you had experience dealing with Illithids at CL 8 with a 4 character party? What were the tactics used? We may encounter them at random, with very little preparation. Or there may be situations where we may prepare an assault. We are currently underground.

Lastly, would a Minor Globe of Invulnerability protect against a Mind Blast? What's the "spell level" of it? (We use the "psionics are the same as magic" rule).

Thanks for your input!

Andargor

Well put it this way Wizards have a good will saving throw Rogues and Fighters sometimes don't have a good will saving throw but if they have a good roll there is a 50/50 chance they might live.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

A flayer will evaporate in a single round if gained up on by two or three PCs. Even if it survives the onslaught, it will certainly retreat due to low HPs.

I would strongly recommend picking up a Wall of Fire or Wall of Ice spell. Or at least a scroll or two. The power of shaping the battlefield is difficult to overestimate.

The thralls will be relatively easy to handle when cut off from a flayer's supervision. As already pointed out they can be Charmed, too.

You also need a backup plan in case things go badly. If the fighter gets Charmed, or the Cleric & Rogue get stunned, you will need to buy a couple rounds to get reorganized.

 

[Darklone]

Summon some large animals who grapple them ?

 

[daemonslye]

I wouldn't count on your DM seeing it this way. The language in the MM is ambiguous as to whether 3d4 rounds is the duration of the mind blast or simply the severity of the stunning effect caused by an instantaneous effect.

If it were me, I would take it to be the latter (as is indeed said explicitly in the Psionics Handbook version), which means that once the blast occurs, there's no effect there to be dispelled. And since it is a spell-like ability, it cannot be counterspelled either. So dispel magic wouldn't work at all.

Ah... If it's not too much trouble, can you post wording of this
out of the psionic hb for completeness? Lucky me, I don't play
in worlds with psionics. I wonder - how do other, admittedly
non-"mind" attacks, such as sonic orb work?

Hrmph. Assuming you are correct, I wonder if one can make
a spellcraft check to notice it using its spell-like ability...
And... um, then tell your readied freinds to shoot it with
their arrows? ...Before it uses its, er, mind ability..?
Nevermind.

I suppose if they are projected, you could still dispel them.
Not really optimal (especially if they are not, well, projected)
but better than a sharp stick in the eye.

So, I guess the - "split up and concentrate ranged attacks"
is still the tactic of the day.

Hmmm.. Perhaps a nice illusion or two that does not grant SR..
I'll think on this a bit.

~D

 

[Grog]

double post

 

[Grog]

Also, expect to see the mind flayers again and again, even if you do slay them. There is no good reason for the creatures to actually be fighting you in person when they could instead Plane Shift to somewhere friendly and use their Astral Projection ability to fight you. Thus, even if you do kill them, you will have only slain their astral form. Regrettably, illithid have Astral Projection at will as an SLA, so you can expect to be harrassed until you are a meal for the creatures.

But they wouldn't be able to eat the party if they weren't actually there. Can astral projections even eat?

Also, I seem to remember that you receive a lot of penalties if your astral body is slain - aren't you laid up for a few days afterward? It's also likely to be a very painful and traumatic experience - if the PCs keep killing the illithid's astral body, it's going to get the hint very quickly and try to find some easier pickings elsewhere.

 

[Grog]

Use Protection from Evil on the fighter and rogue - it prevents mental control.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Use bows and arrows It out-ranges their mind-blast and tentacles, and since they're levitating you can't cut them with your blade.

Of course, you have to worry about their thralls as well. An area dispel could get rid of the charms...