Anti-Magic Characters in D&D: Possible?

[Stormborn]

]Yeah, I mentioned this as a pet peeve a while back (DMs that are more willing to accept WotC material than 3rd party stuff just on sight-unseen) - The classes and mechanics in Iron Heroes are tailor-made for your situation, I think, as I've been told they give the same kind of bonuses over 20 levels, but without using magic for them. As long as you promised your DM a "gamer oath" not to pick up magic with that character, or that any bonuses from magic wouldn't stack with bonuses gained from the class, I wonder if he'd go for it?

I think Henry has a good idea. It should look something like the following:

1) My PC will not use magic items of any kind, including potions (the HP mechanic variant will make up for that for you)
2) My PC will not be the recipient of any benficial spells (buffs, healing, etc) cast on my PC. Any such spells cast upon me automatically fail.
3) My PC is not immune to the magical attacks of enemies or other magical effects that are deterimental to the PC.

Now there will have to be some arbitration. If the only way past the sleeping Guardian Monster is Mass Invisibility, does it work on your PC? It would be difficult, and honestly if your DM is set against it no amount of effort will make it work.

By WotC books alone you could take a Vow of Poverty. A feat that is pretty overpowered for a monk but should be just fine for a Fighter, and fits your PC concept to a certain degree.

 

[Nyaricus]

There are several options here...

Stormborn just mentioned Vow of Poverty. It's a feat flavoured for PCs who do not wish for any material possessions other than the clothes on thier back, more or less. You could combined this, with perhaps having only a longsword, and the defense bonus from Unearthed Arcana to sub-in for your armour. With the knight class, you'll want to automatically stick your highest score into Con, and have a shield as your only other possesson, in regards to arms and armour. If your DM allows you to wear armour, then simply drop the defense bonus. You can also re-flavour the feat as 'Vow of Anti-magic' and go from there, citing special boons form your diety to combat the 'abomination' of magic.

If you wish to go without VoP with straight WotC, a word of cation: You are going to suck. Hardcore. But there are some things you could do...

The Kensai PrC from ComWar allows you to use EXP to imbue your weapons with magic just the same as a wizard can. You could re-flavour this as adivine grant which taxes you, and gives your sword special abilities. Go for non-flashy, like simple +'s for enhancements, keen, and vorpal when you get there. Maybe some bane thrown in, if you hate skaven, or lizardmen, etc especially, and just flavour it like when you attack the, you deal more damage, or wahtever.

The Occult Slayer PrC is from ComWar as well, and is basically exactly what you want for a mage killer. It's also ridiculously easy to get into, so long as you gotta couple skillpoints to spare for Know: Acrana and Spellcraft (know thy enemy... and all that), a BAB of +5, Improved Init and Weapon Focus with a weapon. The only downside is that this is only a 5-level PrC, and it'll get done by 10th level, assuming you hop into this PrC ASAP.

However, despite all of the above, I *HIGHLY* suggest you get your DM to allow Iron Heroes. It's essentually everything you wanted for your character, and if you go with the Armiger, it's similar to the Knight Class from PHBII; a damage-soaker, in essence. Just have an undertsanding that you'll be getting no magical help, in any way, shape or form and can only choose your classes from that book (no core PrC's). Period. Of course, reember that there is an Arcanist class in that book, so exceptions could occur, if direly needed. Nothing like making a short-term sacrifice for a long term benefit of kicking some arcane ass! Also, if your DM allows IH, think about making a special Mage Slayer PrC using IH mechanics; post up here and we'll help, of course!

 

[Nightfall]

Occult Slayer is probably better since Witch Slayer (not Mage slayer, the feat), since that's good at fighting arcane spellcasters.

Honestly I think if you're against "magic" it might be better to try and focus against either divine or arcane, not both. Otherwise you will need Iron Heroes to keep your character alive Tak.

 

[Turanil]

Otherwise you will need Iron Heroes to keep your character alive Tak.

This will be my suggestion: make your character using Iron Heroes, and explain that your character made an oath to never use any form of magic, and that if he would do, he would lose some of his abilities, get saving throws hindrances, etc. But you will have to convince your DM of course. Other suggestion, would be to use the Puritan prestige class I designed long ago (you can find it in a netbook of classes that is availbale on my webpage, see link below). However, it will be much less fun than going Iron Heroes.

 

[taliesin15]

OK, these aren't Prestige Classes (which tend to bore me as a rule), but it seems to me that Barbarian and Monk might be two good Core Classes to run as anti-magic PCs.

 

[Nightfall]

Problem is that barbarian, like fighters, NEED magical items. Monk less so but even they need stuff to a) increase their Wisdom and b) things to increase their damage prowess.

Tur,

Glad you agree with me.

 

[Crothian]

It is possible to go without magical items, but you'll need help from a DM to make it happen.

 

[Nightfall]

Yeah like say using Levin or rites from Green Ronin's Advanced Gamemaster's Guide or maybe something the DMG II can offer, like NPC powers.

 

[frankthedm]

OK, these aren't Prestige Classes (which tend to bore me as a rule), but it seems to me that Barbarian and Monk might be two good Core Classes to run as anti-magic PCs.

Actually, no. Barbarians get torn to shreds really bad unless they have some modest AC bosting gear. The lower level masses of foes grind Barbarian's HP pretty quick and a monster with power attack makes them a splatter. The monk is arguably weaker than other classes when they have gear, without gear they really fall behind.

It gets even more dire when you consider foes that are not humanoid.

Classed NPCs with equivalently reduced gear can provided semi decent challenge by tactical combat and "running interference", but monsters are usually rigged to "charge and chew" and have the HP to soak up hit after hit from high damage energy enchanted weapons.

 

[takasi]

OK, I'm going to post this to the DM and ask if it looks OK. It isn't exactly like the Iron Heroes book because it uses AC instead of defense bonus, and I got kind of lazy on a few things so bear with me. In general though does this look balanced for a character that will not be able to have any type of magic items?

Sir Herold Glegane
Male human armiger 1
LE Medium humanoid (human)
Languages Bretonnian
---------------------------------------------------------
AC 19, touch 11, flat-footed 19; light fort (25% crit failure)
hp 12 (1 HD, 1d4+6); reserve 12; DR 1/magic
Immune magic (helpful)
Fort +3, Ref +2, Will +0 (IH rules: Saves are +1 per lvl)
---------------------------------------------------------
Spd 30 ft.
Melee longsword +3 (1d8+2 / 19-20)
Ranged longbow +2 (1d8)
Base Atk +1; Grp +3
---------------------------------------------------------
Str 14, Dex 13, Con 15, Int 10, Wis 8, Cha 12
SQ healing reserve (heal 1 hp per minute up to reserve amount), master armorer (speed increase 1 category for light and medium armor, use con instead of int for craft armor checks), tough as nails (use con instead of str for carrying capacity)
Feats Armor Mastery 2 (+1 DR, light fort), Shield Mastery 2 (+1 shield bonus)
Background Traits High Born (+2 bonus on diplomacy vs nobles and officials, title: knight), Stout (+1 natural armor bonus)
Skills Craft (Master Armorer) +6, Ride +5, Diplomacy +5
Possessions Heavy Steel Shield (20 gp, AC +3, CP -2, 15 lbs), Scale Mail (50 gp, AC +4, CP -4, DR 1/magic, 30 lbs), longsword


Sir Herold Glegane
Male human armiger 5
LE Medium humanoid (human)
Languages Bretonnian
---------------------------------------------------------
AC 24, touch 11, flat-footed 24; light fort (25% crit failure); uncanny dodge; dodge +2
hp 54 (5 HD, 1d4+6); reserve 54; DR 2/magic
Immune magic (helpful)
Fort +8, Ref +6, Will +4 (IH rules: Saves are +1 per lvl)
---------------------------------------------------------
Spd 30 ft.
Melee longsword +8 (1d8+4 / 19-20)
Ranged longbow +6 (1d8)
Base Atk +5; Grp +7
---------------------------------------------------------
Str 14, Dex 13, Con 16, Int 10, Wis 8, Cha 12
SQ Superior Armor Bonus +3, healing reserve (heal 1 hp per minute up to reserve amount), master armorer (AC Red 1, speed increase 1 category for light and medium armor, use con instead of int for craft armor checks), tough as nails (use con instead of str for carrying capacity), Armor Pool (gain 1 token for every 10 points of damage received when an opponent would have hit without your armor bonus), Combat Magnet (spend 2 armor tokens to draw attack when adjacent ally is targeted), Armored Redoubt (you grant +6 soft cover instead of +4)
Feats Armor Mastery 4 (+2 DR, light fort, -2 ACP, max dex +1), Shield Mastery 4 (+2 shield bonus, if attacker would have hit without shield bonus: +3 shield bonus on next attack, miss provokes AoO), Dodge 3 (+2 dodge bonus against 2 opponents, earn tokens for every miss, use tokens to increase dodge bonus), Weapon Focus (longsword) 2 (+1 attack bonus, +2 damage)
Background Traits High Born (+2 bonus on diplomacy vs nobles and officials, title: knight), Stout (+1 natural armor bonus)
Skills Craft (Master Armorer) +11, Ride +9, Diplomacy +9
Possessions Heavy Steel Shield (20 gp, AC +4, CP -2, 15 lbs), Chainmail (50 gp, AC +8, CP -3, DR 2/magic, 30 lbs), longsword


Sir Herold Glegane
Male human armiger 10
LE Medium humanoid (human)
Languages Bretonnian
---------------------------------------------------------
AC 33, touch 12, flat-footed 33; light fort (25% crit failure); uncanny dodge; dodge +2
hp 116 (10 HD, 1d4+6); reserve 116; DR 3/- (applies to energy attacks and spells)
Immune magic (helpful)
Fort +13, Ref +12, Will +9 (IH rules: Saves are +1 per lvl)
---------------------------------------------------------
Spd 30 ft.
Melee longsword +14/+9 (1d8+4 / 17-20)
Ranged longbow +12/+7 (1d8)
Base Atk +10/+5; Grp +12
---------------------------------------------------------
Str 14, Dex 14, Con 16, Int 10, Wis 8, Cha 12
SQ Superior Armor Bonus +7, healing reserve (heal 1 hp per minute up to reserve amount), master armorer (Max Dex +1, AC Red 2, speed increase 1 category for light and medium armor, use con instead of int for craft armor checks), tough as nails (use con instead of str for carrying capacity), Armor Pool (gain 1 token for every 10 points of damage received when an opponent would have hit without your armor bonus), Combat Magnet (spend 2 armor tokens to draw attack when adjacent ally is targeted), Armored Redoubt (you grant +6 soft cover instead of +4), Wall of Iron (expend tokens, enemy -2 morale to hit and AC, DC 10+1/2lvl+con+tokens [18+tokens]), Reinforced Defense (armor's DR -, applies to spells and energy attacks)
Feats Armor Mastery 6 (+3 DR, light fort, -2 ACP, max dex +1, armor one category lighter), Shield Mastery 6 (+3 shield bonus, if attacker would have hit without shield bonus: +3 shield bonus on next attack, miss provokes AoO), Dodge 5 (+2 dodge bonus against 3 opponents, earn tokens for every miss, use to increase dodge bonus, spend 4 tokens to cause flanking opponent to target their ally), Weapon Focus (longsword) 4 (+2 attack bonus, +2 damage), Improved Critical (longsword) 4 (double crit threat range), Mobility 5 (+6 AC against AoOs for one target, can move before and after attack, +2 AC if one target misses AoO), Deflect Missiles 5 (deflect ranged hits for 0 damage)
Background Traits High Born (+2 bonus on diplomacy vs nobles and officials, title: knight), Stout (+1 natural armor bonus)
Skills Craft (Master Armorer) +16, Ride +15 Diplomacy +14
Possessions Heavy Steel Shield (20 gp, AC +5, CP -2, 15 lbs), Fullplate (50 gp, AC +15, CP -3, DR 2/magic, 30 lbs), longsword


Sir Herold Glegane
Male human armiger 15
LE Medium humanoid (human)
Languages Bretonnian
---------------------------------------------------------
AC 39, touch 12, flat-footed 39; heavy fort (50% crit failure); improved uncanny dodge; dodge +2
hp 173 (15 HD, 1d4+6); reserve 173; DR 5/- (applies to energy attacks and spells)
Immune magic (helpful)
Fort +18, Ref +17, Will +14 (IH rules: Saves are +1 per lvl)
---------------------------------------------------------
Spd 30 ft.
Melee longsword +19/+14/+9 (1d8+6 / 15-20)
Ranged longbow +17/+12/+7 (1d8)
Base Atk +15/+10/+5; Grp +17
---------------------------------------------------------
Str 14, Dex 14, Con 17, Int 10, Wis 8, Cha 12
SQ Superior Armor Bonus +11, healing reserve (heal 1 hp per minute up to reserve amount), master armorer (Max Dex +2, AC Red 3, speed increase 2 category for heavy armor, use con instead of int for craft armor checks), tough as nails (use con instead of str for carrying capacity), Armor Pool (gain 1 token for every 10 points of damage received when an opponent would have without your armor bonus), Combat Magnet (spend 2 armor tokens to draw attack when adjacent ally is targeted), Armored Redoubt (you grant +6 soft cover instead of +4), Wall of Iron (expend tokens, enemy -2 morale to hit and AC, DC 10+lvl+con+tokens [18+tokens]), Reinforced Defense (armor's DR -, applies to spells and energy attacks), Armor as Second Skin (sleep in armor w/no penalty), Draining Defense (spend 2 or more armor tokens on single target, will save DC 10+1/2lvl+con+ token, target takes 1d4+con nonlethal damage every time it attacks), Distracting Lure (4 or more tokens, DC 10+1/2lvl+con+tokens, target loses dex bonus for all attackers)
Feats Armor Mastery 9 (+5 DR, heavy fort, -2 ACP, max dex +1, armor one category lighter), Shield Mastery 9 (+5 shield bonus, +9 if expend standard action, +7 if expend move action, if attacker would have hit without shield bonus: +3 shield bonus on next attack, AoO), Dodge 8 (+2 dodge bonus against 3 opponents, earn tokens for every miss, use to increase dodge bonus, spend 4 tokens to cause flanking opponent to target their ally, spend tokens as bonuses to tumble, use tokens to move after target attack misses, use token to grant attack bonus), Weapon Focus (longsword) 7 (+2 attack bonus, +4 damage), Improved Critical (longsword) 7 (triple crit threat range, +4 to confirm crits), Mobility 8 (+6 AC against AoOs for one target, can move before and after attack, +2 AC if one target misses AoO, attack at any point along a charge, free aoo after foe misses aoo, attempt trip if opponent misses after aoo), Deflect Missiles 8 (Deflect ranged weapons for 0 damage), Combat Expertise 6 (attack roll penalty add to defense up to BAB, defense penalty for attack roll bonus up to BAB, parry token pool, token grants +1 bonus on attacks, +1 defense bonus), Mounted Combat 4 (Ride check negates hit to mount, foe cannot avoid overrun, +2 defense if double move, +4 if runs, double damage after mounted charge)
Background Traits High Born (+2 bonus on diplomacy vs nobles and officials, title: knight), Stout (+1 natural armor bonus)
Skills Craft (Master Armorer) +21, Ride +20 Diplomacy +19
Possessions Heavy Steel Shield (20 gp, AC +7, CP -2, 15 lbs), Fullplate (50 gp, AC +19, CP -3, DR 2/magic, 30 lbs), longsword


Sir Herold Glegane
Male human armiger 20
LE Medium humanoid (human)
Languages Bretonnian
---------------------------------------------------------
AC 43, touch 12, flat-footed 43; immune crits; improved uncanny dodge; dodge +2
hp 250 (15 HD, 1d4+6); reserve 250; DR 10/- (applies to energy attacks and spells)
Immune magic (helpful)
Fort +24, Ref +22, Will +19 (IH rules: Saves are +1 per lvl)
---------------------------------------------------------
Spd 30 ft.
Melee longsword +25/+20/+15/+10 (1d8+6 / 15-20)
Ranged longbow +22/+17/+12/+7 (1d8)
Base Atk +20/+15/+10/+5; Grp +17
---------------------------------------------------------
Str 14, Dex 14, Con 19, Int 10, Wis 8, Cha 12
SQ Superior Armor Bonus +15, healing reserve (heal 1 hp per minute up to reserve amount), master armorer (Max Dex +2, AC Red 3, speed increase 2 category for heavy armor, use con instead of int for craft armor checks), tough as nails (use con instead of str for carrying capacity), Armor Pool (gain 1 token for every 10 points of damage received when an opponent would have without your armor bonus), Combat Magnet (spend 2 armor tokens to draw attack when adjacent ally is targeted), Armored Redoubt (you grant +6 soft cover instead of +4), Wall of Iron (expend tokens, enemy -2 morale to hit and AC, DC 10+lvl+con+tokens [18+tokens]), Reinforced Defense (armor's DR -, applies to spells and energy attacks), Armor as Second Skin (sleep in armor w/no penalty), Draining Defense (spend 2 or more armor tokens on single target, will save DC 10+1/2lvl+con+ token, target takes 1d4+con nonlethal damage every time it attacks), Distracting Lure (4 or more tokens, DC 10+1/2lvl+con+tokens, target loses dex bonus for all attackers), Supreme Reinforced Defenses (+5 DR)
Feats Armor Mastery 10 (+5 DR, immune crits, -2 ACP, max dex +1, armor one category lighter), Shield Mastery 9 (+5 shield bonus, +9 if expend standard action, +7 if expend move action, if attacker would have hit without shield bonus: +3 shield bonus on next attack, AoO, foe that strikes shield must win str check or drop weapon), Dodge 9 (+2 dodge bonus against 3 opponents, earn tokens for every miss, use to increase dodge bonus, spend 4 tokens to cause flanking opponent to target their ally, spend tokens as bonuses to tumble, use tokens to move after target attack misses, use token to grant attack bonus, opponents suffer -2 attack penalty if they miss), Weapon Focus (longsword, lance, longbow, shield) 8 (+3 attack bonus, +4 damage), Improved Critical (longsword) 8 (triple crit threat range, +4 to confirm crits), Mobility 9 (+6 AC against AoOs for one target, can move before and after attack, +2 AC if one target misses AoO, attack at any point along a charge, free aoo after foe misses aoo, attempt trip if opponent misses after aoo), Deflect Missiles 10 (Deflect ranged weapons for 0 damage), Combat Expertise 7 (attack roll penalty add to defense up to BAB, defense penalty for attack roll bonus up to BAB, parry token pool, token grants +1 bonus on attacks, +1 defense bonus), Mounted Combat 4 (Ride check negates hit to mount, foe cannot avoid overrun, +2 defense if double move, +4 if runs, double damage after mounted charge)
Background Traits High Born (+2 bonus on diplomacy vs nobles and officials, title: knight), Stout (+1 natural armor bonus)
Skills Craft (Master Armorer) +27, Ride +25, Diplomacy +24
Possessions Heavy Steel Shield (20 gp, AC +7, CP -2, 15 lbs), Fullplate (50 gp, AC +23, CP -3, DR 2/magic, 30 lbs), longsword