Any advice on running a low-magic-item campaign?

[boredgremlin]

I am currently designing a campaign in which I would like to (significantly) lower the availability of magic items. It is going to have a moderate level of 'magic', but much of what will be available is going to be non-standard: incarnum, truename, binding, etc. The only spellcasters are going to be spontaneous casters with rather limited spell access: beguilers, duskblades, spellthieves...you get the idea.

I know how to keep the level of magic items low, but that is the easy part. What I am really looking forward to is advice on how to gauge the deadliness of a game with a dearth of magic items. Some things are obvious (DR/magic or alignment, incorporealness, etc). What I am looking for are the not-so-obvious ways in which the party might be hampered or killed because the game assumes a certain access to magic items.

Mostly what I would like is advice on how the lack of items will influence the types of CRs that the party can face. RAW assume pretty easy access to items that improve AC, attacks, saves, grant invisibility, increase movement, all that jazz.

The other thing I would welcome advice on is how to adjustment the amount of wealth I should allow the party to accumulate when they are not spending it on magic items. I don't want them to be able to buy a fiefdom at 7th level because I forgot to adjust creature treasure down.

I don't expect a simple formula to determine CRs and treasue (party magic item value/standard magic item value* CR), although that would be nice! Mostly I would just like to hear from people who have run campaigns with a lower-than-standard access to magic items, what problems they ran into and how the adjusted their game accordingly.

Thanks in advance.

bah, RAW CRs are a joke. they never really work anyway. The thing with low magic in any form is that characters cant do fight after fight after fight without healing. The trick to any low magic game is emphasize roleplaying over combat. Make every combat hard and life threatening for all the characters, then give them ways out of most fights. Then the ones they do get into actually have drama and mean something.

The big points of low magic are either gritty (characters die every other critical hit by the DM or so) or emphasizing roleplaying over grid and miniature combat. If your going for gritty then go for it, but your players wont connect to characters who die all the time so be ready for that. If your going for roleplaying then just give them plenty of non-combat options and some hard seriusly dramatic fights when the does hit the fan.

 

[Hussar]

There really is a simple answer to this.

As was mentioned, don't use fantastical creatures. Since it's a low magic campaign, you shouldn't be using them anyway - they're out of place. Sure, once in a long while, you can toss in a ghost or something, but, almost never as an actual combat encounter.

Figure the party is equal to about -2 for their level. So, a 5th level party should be facing EL 3 encounters (remember, no magic stuff). Give or take anyway. That way, the equipment penalties are nowhere near as severe, the party has enough hit points to survive the fights and their saving throws are good enough to shrug off the lower CR effects like poison and the like.

I think the real problem here is, people think too much about it. It's really not that hard to use DnD as a low magic game. You don't need to reinvent the wheel. Just add some training wheels to the party.

Stick to humanoids, animals, vermin, dire animals 75% of the time and you'll do fine. The other 25% use something funkier like a giant or monstrous beast that doesn't have too many abilities and no worries.

Oh, and use a 45-50 point buy character. That right there is worth several levels worth of magic treasure.

And, one last thing, give max hit points per level.

That should work fairly well.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

I just noticed/rediscovered non-spellcasting versions of the Ranger and Paladin in the Complete Warrior, if your staying with 3.5 D&D. They are right after the Swashbuckler write-up.

That's false advertising from CW. They do cast spells, they just don't have components. WotC doesn't know how to do low-magic, so I'm surprised people assume they'd get it right.

 

[Treebore]

Those aren't spells! Those are class powers! A completely different thing! (read in the sarcasm, please.)

It is a change from a spell list, though. It would definitely change the flavor and be less of an issue in a low magic campaign.

 

[Valesin]

I really appreciate all of the advice. I especially like the fact that for every person who tells me that such a campaign world in impossible in 3.5 someone follows up with the opinion that it will be no big deal.

However, one misconception has crept into the thread: that I intend to run a low magic campaign. I do not. The level of magic is going to be pretty moderate: not Forgotten Realms or Eberron levels perhaps, but a pervasive magic nonetheless.

My intention is to reduce the influence of magic items and the power creep that is inevitable when access to a plethora of such items is availabe (cloaks to increase saves followed by stat-boosting items to offset the better saves, magic weapons needed to offset the artificially inflated ACs of magic protections, etc). More specifically, I want magic items to be special again: no +1 longswords but instead the Sword of AwesomO the Untouchable; granting AC and Save bonuses and perhaps Evasion. I will probably use a Weapons of Legacy-type system where the party finds magic items later in their careers than is standard but have those items increase in power and effectiveness as they gain level. Rather than dozens of +1 or +2 items adorning the party like enchanted Xmas tree lights, a couple of items each with a legend behind each one.

The total sum of magic items will be lower than standard, but each one will be special, possibly unique. And, with the exception of fewer magic items and the emphasis on non-spell magical abilities, the level of magic in the world will be quite respectable.

 

[Rodrigo Istalindir]

This is a little tangential to what you want, but...

One thing I tend to do is substitute more limited use and consumable items in place of the permanent or at-will stuff. This gives the party a little wiggle-room to overcome the unexpected, but forces them to make real decisions about resource use instead of just firing away.

On topic, if you plan on keeping magic levels normal while reducing the item aspect, you'll find that the casters become significantly more powerful at higher levels relative to the fighters and rogues. You can offset this to some extent with extra feats, but it's still going to leave a big gap in terms of the amount of damage the front-lines can dish out. Implementing an action die mechanic with some special features for combatants could help (eg spend an AP, deal max damage, or some such).

However, if everyone in the party is going to play a caster or a hybrid, you're probably going to be all right without too much modification. A duskblade isn't as dependent on equipment as a straight fighter, for example. Since BAB tends to outstrip AC, the players will probably be ok in the offensive department and might needs some help defensively, so a class-based defensive bonus can take up the slack there.

Grim Tales would be a good companion to what you are attempting, as you could lift feat and talent chains wholesale, and defensive bonuses and better saves, too. Keep class abilities, skills and hit dice from the PHB.

 

[Endur]

I do not recommend changing any PHB/DMG rules, just being careful in how you GM.

Ok, so lets assume no magic shops.

Then, yes, if wealth stayed the same, there would be more retainers and paid henchmen and land puchased. Is this a bad thing? I don't have a problem with it. More roleplaying.

So, I wouldn't change wealth given out for CRs.

Now what about challenges? Some monsters are going to be more deadly than others. DR magic is going to be a mighty obstacle to those that lack magical weaponry. Just as DR silver is a mighty obstacle to those that lack silvery weaponry.

Again, I wouldn't have a problem with it. Just recognize as a GM that some opponents are potentially unbeatable for your party, even if the CR implies otherwise. Conan and many other heroes in novels discovered ways to defeat the unbeatable, usually relying on their brains and not their swords.

A monster that can't be slain by the sword might still be bull rushed off a cliff, or lured into a pit trap from which it can't climb out, or drowned in a lake or trapped in quicksand, etc.

 

[Voadam]

Wealth/magic items are a form of power in D&D.

Ways to bring up power to compensate and regain close to normal balance:

1 higher stats,
2 more feats
3 gestalt
4 free LA

(Gestalt and increased feat acquisition/stat increases are best ways to get scaling benefits with levels)

HP issue, less magical healing so . . .
1 more hp/level so they can go longer
2 recharge hp from UA
3 increase nonmagical healing options (herbal potions, better healing skill options, etc.)

 

[Emirikol]

We've been running low magic D&D-rules CONAN (NOT the RPG) game for years. We quickly realized that a couple simple changes allow for magic to exist AND to not have 8000000 house rules.

Here they are:
1. Your first two PC levels must be in a non-spellcasting class. This eliminates 90% of your problems.

2. Make healing potions MORE COMMON instead of less common. Call it an herbal thing. It's a great way to get rid of LOOT too. This get's rid of the last 9% of your problems.

3. Certain spells can be bumped up a level if you want a particular 'feel.' I listed mine below.

4. Have more cool non-magical weapons and classify anything of +3 or less as NON-MAGICAL superior masterwork. Thus the "finest" steel in all of Aquilonia becomes a +2 item and +3 then becomes "legendary." The same thing is true for one-shot SKILL ITEMS (notice, I said one-shot). Diplomatic favors, special rogue-tool-oil, etc. can all still be cool and isn't hard to modify from existing magical items. The key is to NOT do more work than you have to. Just say, "No, it's not magical, it's just superior masterwork...I guess you need to run from that ghost eh?"

5. Have a logical reason why all these things are occurring and use common sense. Instead of having a DR-magic monster, use the EXACT SAME MONSTER but remove the DR. Players then have to use their fricking brains instead of relying on the 'magic' crutch for everything..which seems kind of sickening after you've played a lower-magic game.

6. The key is to keep it fun and still keep it close to what players expect. If you start telling players all the stuff they CAN'T do and all the fun they WON'T be having because you're so proud of your low-magic world, players will fly the coop.

jh
..

 

[WayneLigon]

The total sum of magic items will be lower than standard, but each one will be special, possibly unique. And, with the exception of fewer magic items and the emphasis on non-spell magical abilities, the level of magic in the world will be quite respectable.

You won't have any problems, then, since people will have a couple of really good magic items rather than lots of smaller ones. Really, it's perfectly possible to run a D&D game with virtually no magic items or buffing or stat-boosting spells. You just have to watch out for a few specific monsters: anything with a turn to stone ability, specifcally.

The amount of treasure you give out is something you'll have to gauge yourself. Actual coinage treasure can be rare and really not affect the game much at all. (Don't worry about them buying land. It's not like that's actually possible in most campaign set-ups I've seen anyway: nobles have to grant it to you).