Any advice on running a low-magic-item campaign?

[NCSUCodeMonkey]

However, one misconception has crept into the thread: that I intend to run a low magic campaign. I do not. The level of magic is going to be pretty moderate: not Forgotten Realms or Eberron levels perhaps, but a pervasive magic nonetheless.

It can be done and it can be a lot of fun. My weekly campaign is based of the premise of putting the spotlight on the characters and what they can do, not on whatever magical nuclear weapon they happen to find in a dragon horde. It's a fun style of play, but it's not for everyone. In my game, I only make minor adjustements to monsters (decreasing DR is the most common change). You'd be amazed at how resourceful the PCs can be, low magic (items) or no. My group regularly takes down foes that they don't have any business facing and they do it by being smart. Their last four sessions have included combats at 4+ their CR against spellcasters, giants, horrors beyond mention, etc. There's nothing quite like coming back from the edge of defeat and besting a more powerful foe.

Here's a quick summary of things I've seen in my weekly game, YMMV:

• Power Gaps between PC classes -- Whoa ho is this a big one. You thought spellcasters were more powerful than fighters before, wait until the fighters are without magical arms and armor!
• The PCs want things -- Plain and simple, one of the biggest parts of an RPG for a lot of players is collecting bigger/better/badder equipment. If you've got a player that always takes Craft feats or the Craft skill, you'll need a way to stretch out mundane equipment so he/she can enjoy that element.
• Player deaths happen more often. In my game, because it's low magic item and low wealth, it's difficult to bring those dead back to life.

Here's a partial list of the things I've done to balance these out:

• I use the Masterwork system from the Black Company campaign setting, but I'm sure there are other supplemental rules out there. Masterwork items don't really get much better, they just gain the ability to have multiple bonuses.
• As previously suggested on the thread, I bump the PCs every once in a while (every 6 levels at current) with a supernatural-esque ability that complements their character's style and personality. It's like getting a magical item, but the character is the item. Mechanically speaking, there's not much difference, but psychologically the difference is substantial.
• I use a fate point system similar to Warhammer. Every character gets a "get out of death free" card that they can use once and only once. Losing it hurts in the first place (usually permanent ability score or movement damage) and once lost, a huge change comes over the player/character. They're suddenly a lot more careful .
• Encourage your spellcasters to support your fighters. I do this both in a meta-sense and in a tactical sense, by suddenly striking the spellcasters from the rear with enemies that they cannot easily dispatch. When the fighters come crashing through to save the day the cleric doesn't think twice about healing them up.
• Action Points work great. Again, I use the system found in the Black Company setting, but any system should do the trick. Just make sure that it gives plenty of support to the fighters; Black Company does this by giving more action points to the fighter class than any other class.

I can e-mail my list of house rules if you think it'll help. They're pretty specific to my Black Company/D&D hybrid, but they might provide you some direction.

NCSUCodeMonkey

 

[NCSUCodeMonkey]

Consider implementing something like the "higher minimum hp" from Iron Heroes.

Also an excellent point that I completely forgot about. I give my players the option of rolling or taking the high average on HPs at every level.

NCSUCodeMonkey

 

[Ourph]

All good points and I have considered most of them. But won't the spellcasters also be buffing the fighter-types and not just themselves? Making a fighter's weapon magical (or thanks to Greater Magic Weapon uber-magical) is often a better tactic than buffing yourself. You say that spellcasters can mimic almost any magic item for short periods of time; assuming that they are team players and not selfish bastards won't that help everyone equally?

Edit: the point about spell damage being unaffected by the lack of items while a fighter's damage is severly hampered is an excellent point. I have been thinking mainly in terms of buffing/utility spells which can be spread around; spells that deal damage are much more powerful by comparison in the low-item world. Thanks for pointing that out.

This is something to seriously consider with a low-item game. I understand you're limiting spellcasters too, which is a good move (a standard Wizard in a game like this can completely derail any plans you may have for keeping the item count low). I would also recommend, besides limiting available classes, that you consider raising the required caster level for at least some Item Creation Feats (I usually leave Scribe Scroll and Brew Potion as-is) and possibly raising the spell level of some spells (Shatter and Improved Invisibility are two that spring immediately to mind). If you don't do the former, the party can avoid the item limitations by crafting their own and the latter offsets the fact that some spells are more powerful when counteracting magic items aren't available to offset them.

The other thing to consider is that players used to a higher level of magic items in the game can put a lot of peer pressure on a casting player to focus completely on buff spells. It sounds like this might be something you're going for, but I have found that some players put in this position resent feeling like a walking Fountain of Bull's Strength. I've completely eliminated Stat Buff spells from the game before because of this (which worked OK) but it's something that can also be handled just by checking in with the players and helping them resolve the issue by talking it out before anyone gets too frustrated.

The other main thing you'll have to think about has already been mentioned a couple of times. When you deviate from the assumptions of the game, monster selection becomes important. Usually a low magic game works best if, as levels progress, you're throwing lower CR creatures at the party in larger numbers rather than a single CL equivalent creature. This is actually one of the appeals to me of a low-magic game (that these lower CR creatures remain useful longer). If you want to throw a single tough creature at the party occasionally that's OK too, you'll just have to select a creature that is fairly non-magical. That can either be a tough "mundane" creature (a dire animal or something similar) or an advanced version of a lower CR creature. Even creatures or NPCs with class levels are fine, but you'll have to be sure to limit their magic items in the same way the PCs items are limited for things to stay equivalent in terms of power level.

BTW - Don't listen to the naysayers. I have problems with D&D3e and run games with other systems these days, but the inability to run a low magic item or even a low magic game with D&D isn't one of them. It's doable and enjoyable if you like D&D in the first place.

 

[drothgery]

However, one misconception has crept into the thread: that I intend to run a low magic campaign. I do not. The level of magic is going to be pretty moderate: not Forgotten Realms or Eberron levels perhaps, but a pervasive magic nonetheless.

Err... there's something of a misconception that FR and (especially) Eberron have nonstandard magic levels. In both FR and Eberron, low-level items are easier to find, buy, and sell, than the standard (FR has Thayans, Eberron has artificers and House Cannith). And FR has lots of named high-level casters flying around. But PC wealth levels are strictly by the book in Eberron, and I'm not sure if the 3.5 FR updates changed things (since I don't play FR, I stopped buying FR rulebooks after a while), but after 1st-level, this was true in FR as well (in 3.0, FR PCs had more stuff at first level, but not after that).

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Err... there's something of a misconception that FR and (especially) Eberron have nonstandard magic levels. In both FR and Eberron, low-level items are easier to find, buy, and sell, than the standard (FR has Thayans, Eberron has artificers and House Cannith). And FR has lots of named high-level casters flying around. But PC wealth levels are strictly by the book in Eberron, and I'm not sure if the 3.5 FR updates changed things (since I don't play FR, I stopped buying FR rulebooks after a while), but after 1st-level, this was true in FR as well (in 3.0, FR PCs had more stuff at first level, but not after that).

In both settings, PCs get the normal amount of wealth. (FR PCs get a tad more at first level, but it's not a huge deal.)

The difference is in NPCs, and in explanations for where "hoard wealth" came from. FR has all kinds of old empires with massive amounts of magic items (anyone want to visit the ruins of a Netheril city? Some of those items work without a mythallar). FR has the Red Wizards of Thay market (I bet that was deliberately designed for 3e uses). It also has way too many (IMO) high level good-aligned NPCs, but that's moving far away from the magic item debate. Eberron has Magewrights and Artificers, many of which form guilds and crank out magic items. The latter, at least, don't even always need to sack XP to make magic items. Certain areas, like Xendrik and the Mournland, have pretty obvious sources of magic items, and treasure can effectively be transformed into magic items (given time) by artificers.

 

[Teflon Billy]

I've tried this in the past with little success. AC becomes a real issue as you get into the mid and high levels without the magic. Saving Throws, damage output and disparity between the classes will become an increasing concern. Magic wielding characters start to pull ahead of those that don't have it pretty quick. Magic items are one of the big balancers for the non-spellcasters in 3e.

I'm inclined to agree with VirgilCaine here - if you seriously want to go this route, save yourself the pain and frustration and use a system designed to handle it.

I'm with these guys. I've tried and tried and tried and it doesn't work worth a damn. Here's what advice I can provide if you are hell bent on doing it anyways...

• Forget about CR. Seriously, it was far from exact to begin with and becomes totally unworkable in the absence of appropriate (meaning plentiful) magic items.
  
  
• Put a lid on Spellcasting classes. If you allow Spellcasters as PC's, your "low Magic" campaign isn't going to stay low magic for very long and they will absolutely outstrip everything around them in terms of power and flexibility.
  
  
• DR is a game ender. If the PC's aren't going to have magic weapons of any importance, you should make an effort to change most of the DR to special materials.
  
  
• By about 6th level, your players AC is not going to be up to snuff for facing the kind of challenges you'd expect them to face.
  
  
• Without Clerical Healing, PC's spend a lot of time resting. Plan for that.

 

[Teflon Billy]

I've had a lot of success and enjoyment using Mongoose's Conan RPG for low magic fantasy.

It allows the characters utility to focus on the characters themselves, rather than on their equipment lists.

 

[Valesin]

Err... there's something of a misconception that FR and (especially) Eberron have nonstandard magic levels. In both FR and Eberron, low-level items are easier to find, buy, and sell, than the standard (FR has Thayans, Eberron has artificers and House Cannith). And FR has lots of named high-level casters flying around. But PC wealth levels are strictly by the book in Eberron, and I'm not sure if the 3.5 FR updates changed things (since I don't play FR, I stopped buying FR rulebooks after a while), but after 1st-level, this was true in FR as well (in 3.0, FR PCs had more stuff at first level, but not after that).

True, but I am defining 'by the book' as high magic. My campaign is going to be moderate magic and thus less than the campaign worlds that have set the standard for magic. However, it is not going to be a truly low magic game but a more 'focused' magical game; no spellcasters with access to a wide range of unrelated spells, but instead each with a magical niche.

 

[craftyrat]

I have been working on this same issue for our campaign - low magic item but not entirely low magic (or low magic but still heroic). The alternatives didn't really suit me. I took a lot of ideas from Iron Heroes, but I didn't like whole token idea (too much bookkeeping, imo). Anyway, here are some of the rule changes we are looking at:

A new spell casting system, so a Spellcaster (the only spell casting class) has fewer spells per day, and many standard types of spells are no available (no fly, very limited teleport, very few divinations, no save or die, etc.). In return they have more regular combat ability (medium BAB).

An expanded feat select, and a feat every 2 levels. This is combined with fairly generic classes. Feats are meant to be heroic, without being clearly magical. There are no prestige classes - everything is feat-based. I'm currently at the beta stage.

A slight increase in skill points.

Defense bonus that does not stack with armor (with one exception). This is a personal preference, as I would prefer to see more characters not wearing armor.

Expanded masterwork weapon choices.

Changed races to take away any innate magical abilities.

Each character gets a trait at 1st level, kind of a cross between IH traits and background feats.

I can't post the file here since it is very large (lots of graphics) and essentially one long copyright violation (lots of stuff taking from all my different books). If anyone wants to see it, you can email me and I'll send you a stripped down version (or the regular version if you are willing to accept a 7mb email message).

craftyrat (petergou @ shaw.ca)

 

[Buttercup]

There really is a simple answer to this.

As was mentioned, don't use fantastical creatures. Since it's a low magic campaign, you shouldn't be using them anyway - they're out of place. Sure, once in a long while, you can toss in a ghost or something, but, almost never as an actual combat encounter.

Figure the party is equal to about -2 for their level. So, a 5th level party should be facing EL 3 encounters (remember, no magic stuff). Give or take anyway. That way, the equipment penalties are nowhere near as severe, the party has enough hit points to survive the fights and their saving throws are good enough to shrug off the lower CR effects like poison and the like.

I think the real problem here is, people think too much about it. It's really not that hard to use DnD as a low magic game. You don't need to reinvent the wheel. Just add some training wheels to the party.

Stick to humanoids, animals, vermin, dire animals 75% of the time and you'll do fine. The other 25% use something funkier like a giant or monstrous beast that doesn't have too many abilities and no worries.

Oh, and use a 45-50 point buy character. That right there is worth several levels worth of magic treasure.

And, one last thing, give max hit points per level.

That should work fairly well.

This is the way I handle it, and it works just fine. If you don't want to start the characters off with extremely high ability scores, use something similar to the Conan rules, and increase *all* ability scores every 4th level.

I don't give max hit points every level, but I do for the first two levels. So far it's been sufficient.

Also, you can make the Mage Armor spell stackable. If you do, you might find that your fighters decide to take a level of sorcerer so they can cast it on themselves multiple times.