D&D 5E Any further clarification to Hiding in Player's Handbook?

[MerricB]

I've just written an article on how I understand the Stealth rules to work:

http://merricb.com/2014/08/13/being-stealthy-in-dungeons-dragons-5e/

I'm hoping the DMG clarify them a bit more!

Cheers!

 

[fjw70]

You can only be hidden if the opponent can't see you so you need total cover, heavy obscurement, invisibility, or a DM ruling that the opponent is distracted enough not to see you.


Once you can't be seen you make a stealth check to hide oppose by the passive perception of the opponent.


If you attack while hidden you lose your hidden status, but could still be unseen.


When hidden if you move to a space that the opponent can see the DM may rule that the opponent is distracted enough to let you attack before he sees you, otherwise you are no longer hidden when you reveal yourself by moving to the space.

 

[Nemio]

You always use passive perception, unless you spend an action to Search for a hidden character.

Cheers!

So you can be worse at looking for something (get result of 1 to 9) than when you're not really paying attention / looking at all (minimum 10)

How is this explained?

Sorry if it's mentioned in your blog post, can't open that from here

 

[fjw70]

I've just written an article on how I understand the Stealth rules to work:

http://merricb.com/2014/08/13/being-stealthy-in-dungeons-dragons-5e/

I'm hoping the DMG clarify them a bit more!

Cheers!

My only disagreement with this would be the moving slower thing. I don't think the travel rules apply to round by round stealth, but the DM can certainly apply them in this situation if they want.

 

[MerricB]

So you can be worse at looking for something (get result of 1 to 9) than when you're not really paying attention / looking at all (minimum 10)

You'll never actually be worse - because they won't be hidden from you if they fail to beat your Passive Perception.

The basic idea is that to become hidden, they must make a Stealth vs Passive Perception check.

Once hidden, you need to beat their original Stealth check with an active Perception check (which takes an action).

Cheers!

 

[fjw70]

So you can be worse at looking for something (get result of 1 to 9) than when you're not really paying attention / looking at all (minimum 10)

How is this explained?

Sorry if it's mentioned in your blog post, can't open that from here

You can decide to search the wrong area or focus on other irrelevant details.

 

[MerricB]

My only disagreement with this would be the moving slower thing. I don't think the travel rules apply to round by round stealth, but the DM can certainly apply them in this situation if they want.

I agree - that's very much an area that can be up to DM adjudication. As I recall, earlier editions required movement at half speed to remain stealthy (or otherwise at a penalty), but it's an area for debate.

Cheers!

 

[Pickles JG]

So you can be worse at looking for something (get result of 1 to 9) than when you're not really paying attention / looking at all (minimum 10)

How is this explained?

Sorry if it's mentioned in your blog post, can't open that from here

Searching gives you extra attempts - the hider has already beaten your passive perception.

Mind you I would rather only one side rolls most of these things so ideally either the searcher tryis to hit "passive stealth" or the hide check sets the DC for subsequent searches.

 

[Li Shenron]

I've just written an article on how I understand the Stealth rules to work:

http://merricb.com/2014/08/13/being-stealthy-in-dungeons-dragons-5e/

I'm hoping the DMG clarify them a bit more!

Cheers!

Liked the article.

I think the DMG should add more clarifications. For example, cover and concealment usually both allow to hide, but they are very different things, e.g.:

- a thick glass pane covers you but doesn't hide you
- a thin opaque curtain hides you but doesn't cover you

Being visible is a different thing than being located by someone: the invisible monster/character can be located (i.e. they know there it is) for instance if it's standing into water or sand, of if it's moving, or if it just turned invisible a moment ago. In some corner case (Mirror Image, displacer beasts) someone can even be visible but its true location unknown.

I think 3e had somewhat clearer description for hiding:

" You need cover or concealment in order to attempt a Hide check. Total cover or total concealment usually (but not always; see Special, below) obviates the need for a Hide check, since nothing can see you anyway.

If people are observing you, even casually, you can’t hide. You can run around a corner or behind cover so that you’re out of sight and then hide, but the others then know at least where you went.

If your observers are momentarily distracted (such as by a Bluff check; see below), though, you can attempt to hide. While the others turn their attention from you, you can attempt a Hide check if you can get to a hiding place of some kind. (As a general guideline, the hiding place has to be within 1 foot per rank you have in Hide.) This check, however, is made at a -10 penalty because you have to move fast.

Sniping

If you’ve already successfully hidden at least 10 feet from your target, you can make one ranged attack, then immediately hide again. You take a -20 penalty on your Hide check to conceal yourself after the shot. "

---

Generally I have problems with invisible stuff or similarly with blinded characters.

Say you're in total darkness, and you are attacked by someone with darkvision. Probably the attacker still needs a Hide check, because that includes not making noises. But if your Perception wins, you know where it is but you still can't see it! Can we say it's not technically hidden anymore?

But even if it's not hidden, at best you know where it is... but how can you defend normally (dodge, parry) from its attacks, since you don't see the attacks? Shouldn't it still have advantage to attack you?

 

[MerricB]

I think the major difference for being hidden in 5E is that it requires both not being visible and not being heard - the emphasis on being silent changes how it needs to be approached, IMO.

Cheers!