Any good 8th lvl divination spells not in PhB?
- Thread starter Piratecat
- Start date
Dr. Strangemonkey
First Post
If all else fails you might look to other games for inspiration.
There's a charm I love from Exalted called With One Mind, and it basically allows the caster to allow everyone else in her 'party' to read each other's minds. This in turn lets them coordinate their actions in battle more effectively.
For DnD I would allow similar spells to cause affects like giving everyone within a certain distance of each other Combat Reflexes and bonuses to AC.
Actually, there should be a class of spells that enables the caster to allow other to divine things.
Aside from the obvious implications you could put forward nicely poetic and wicked spells.
Like casting a divination spell on someone that lets them see a moment of true valor from the past and inspires them to great heights of courage.
Or a spell that gives someone else a vision of the most horrible place in Hell and overwhelms them with despair.
A very nice divination would be something that lets you see what spells another caster has memorized. That would certainly be worth eighth level.
Lower levels spells of that type might simply give you bonuses to countermagic or initiative.
But to actually reads a wizard's memorized spells a few hours before you fight her would be wicked beyond belief.
There's a charm I love from Exalted called With One Mind, and it basically allows the caster to allow everyone else in her 'party' to read each other's minds. This in turn lets them coordinate their actions in battle more effectively.
For DnD I would allow similar spells to cause affects like giving everyone within a certain distance of each other Combat Reflexes and bonuses to AC.
Actually, there should be a class of spells that enables the caster to allow other to divine things.
Aside from the obvious implications you could put forward nicely poetic and wicked spells.
Like casting a divination spell on someone that lets them see a moment of true valor from the past and inspires them to great heights of courage.
Or a spell that gives someone else a vision of the most horrible place in Hell and overwhelms them with despair.
A very nice divination would be something that lets you see what spells another caster has memorized. That would certainly be worth eighth level.
Lower levels spells of that type might simply give you bonuses to countermagic or initiative.
But to actually reads a wizard's memorized spells a few hours before you fight her would be wicked beyond belief.
Dr. Strangemonkey
First Post
As another thought, though this is somewhat within the realm of enchantment, being able to give divination affects to a shield would be crazy cool.
Mustrum_Ridcully
Legend
In the Psionics handbook, there are some nice Clairsentience power, like "Recall pain" or "Recall Death", or "Shield of Prudence"...
Mustrum Ridcully
Mustrum Ridcully
Sagiro
Rodent of Uncertain Parentage
Here's an idea. Don't know if it's 8th-level material, but it's pretty powerful without necessarily being a "plot-wrecker" for DM's to worry about. There might be some game-breaking logic loopholes I haven't thought of.
Truth Conversion
Divination
Level: Sor/Wiz 8, Knowledge 8
Components: M
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 1 minute/level
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No
While under the effects of truth conversion, the caster not only knows all lies she hears for what they are, but hears in her head the truth that the liar is concealing. For instance, if someone knows that a prisoner is concealed in the top of a tower, but claims that the prisoner is being kept in a basement dungeon, the caster of truth conversion will hear in her head: "The prisoner is in the top of a tower." (Note that the caster physically hears the lie, but simultaneously gains an inner knowledge of the truth.)
If the speaker of a lie honestly believes he is telling the truth, the caster of truth conversion will know that what is spoken is a lie, but not know the truth about the subject. A liar who does not know the truth about what he speaks will produce a similar result. (This prevents the caster from learning secrets by speaking random lies about some subject.)
Note that the truth heard by the caster is generally equal and opposite to the lie spoken. So, in the above example, if the liar had said: "the prisoner is dead," the caster would learn only "the prisoner is alive," not "the prisoner is alive and in a tower." The more (false) detail the liar provides, the more truth the Diviner learns.
The caster need not understand the language being spoken to learn the truth of what is said to her, although she doesn't get any special understanding of the lie itself if the language is unfamiliar to her.
---
Why this spell is 8th level:
- note the lack of verbal or somatic components. As long as the matetial components are on the person of the caster, this spell can be cast undetectably.
- because the spell is targeted on the caster and not the potential liar, there is no saving throw, and it bypasses anti-divination measures cast personally upon the liar. Likewise it would work on lies uttered by constructs, undead and elementals.
Truth Conversion
Divination
Level: Sor/Wiz 8, Knowledge 8
Components: M
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 1 minute/level
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No
While under the effects of truth conversion, the caster not only knows all lies she hears for what they are, but hears in her head the truth that the liar is concealing. For instance, if someone knows that a prisoner is concealed in the top of a tower, but claims that the prisoner is being kept in a basement dungeon, the caster of truth conversion will hear in her head: "The prisoner is in the top of a tower." (Note that the caster physically hears the lie, but simultaneously gains an inner knowledge of the truth.)
If the speaker of a lie honestly believes he is telling the truth, the caster of truth conversion will know that what is spoken is a lie, but not know the truth about the subject. A liar who does not know the truth about what he speaks will produce a similar result. (This prevents the caster from learning secrets by speaking random lies about some subject.)
Note that the truth heard by the caster is generally equal and opposite to the lie spoken. So, in the above example, if the liar had said: "the prisoner is dead," the caster would learn only "the prisoner is alive," not "the prisoner is alive and in a tower." The more (false) detail the liar provides, the more truth the Diviner learns.
The caster need not understand the language being spoken to learn the truth of what is said to her, although she doesn't get any special understanding of the lie itself if the language is unfamiliar to her.
---
Why this spell is 8th level:
- note the lack of verbal or somatic components. As long as the matetial components are on the person of the caster, this spell can be cast undetectably.
- because the spell is targeted on the caster and not the potential liar, there is no saving throw, and it bypasses anti-divination measures cast personally upon the liar. Likewise it would work on lies uttered by constructs, undead and elementals.
Ciaran
First Post
Sagiro,
That there is a very cool spell idea. I like it. However, I’m not comfortable with the way it conflates lies with falsehoods; I think it would be better if the spell would simply fail to recognize spoken falsehoods that the speaker believes to be true, or else if you simply replaced every instance of “lie” with “falsehood” to prevent inconsistency. Also, it seems odd to me that a spell that takes the target’s thoughts and knowledge into account would completely ignore the target’s anti-divination measures “because the spell is targeted on the caster and not the potential liar.” Now if, like Discern Location, it ignores anti-divination measures simply because it can, that’s another story.
Just my two cents,
- Eric
That there is a very cool spell idea. I like it. However, I’m not comfortable with the way it conflates lies with falsehoods; I think it would be better if the spell would simply fail to recognize spoken falsehoods that the speaker believes to be true, or else if you simply replaced every instance of “lie” with “falsehood” to prevent inconsistency. Also, it seems odd to me that a spell that takes the target’s thoughts and knowledge into account would completely ignore the target’s anti-divination measures “because the spell is targeted on the caster and not the potential liar.” Now if, like Discern Location, it ignores anti-divination measures simply because it can, that’s another story.
Just my two cents,
- Eric
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