Any suggestions for a new bard?

[LordVyreth]

I'm going to play my first bard ever in a new campaign, and I need some advice on interesting or useful ways to play or build him. I'm thinking of emphasizing fighting and face skills primarily, but it's still up in the air. Any general suggestions? Any prestige classes that are recommended? Would multiclassing into fighter or some other class be recommended? Are the Sublime Cord and Seeker of Songs in Complete Arcane worth looking into? Is there enough good stuff in the Complete Adventurer for it to be worth picking up for this? And is using a specially made buckler as a percussion instrument a really cool idea or a really stupid one? I'm still torn on that idea.

 

[Nonlethal Force]

Wow. Alot of questions. Let's see.

As far as making the bard a fighter - go ranged. But if you're using a buckler you probably already know that. The bard and the cleric may have the same BAB progression ... but the clerics spell list and armor usage gives them the staying power to melee if they want. bards ... not so much.

Personally, if it were me, If there are 5 party members (including yourself) or more, I'd forget the combat thing altogether. If there are at least 4 other people that you'll be fighting beside ... you'll more than likely get better use out of inspiring others than trying to do it yourself. Keep a crossbow around just in case, but your instrument should be primary.

Go for skills. Half-elf or human are my favorite races to do a bard with. Human because it grants you an early feat and a skillpoint ... half-elf because the bonus to Gather Info is nice for a bard. Look for each and every Synergy bonus you can get for Diplomacy. With the right build, your bard will more than make up for their lack of offense by simply "negotiating through" encounters that ordinarily would have led to combat - or at the very least spell usage and heals. If your DM is doing things right, your diplomatic solution should earn the party just as much XP as swords and Magic Missles would have. If you are starting at level one (and therefore can't get Synergies yet) take skills that will get you the bonuses at level-up.

As far as Complete Adventurer goes ... if you follow my advice and are in a party of 5 or more - yes. If you are in a party of 4 or fewer ... uh ... go something other than bard. And that would also mean the Complete Adventurer won't help you out on your bard build. [Yes, I state the obvious!] But, if you continue with the bard build ... I love Versatile Performer as an early pick-up, but you need five ranks so it can't be 1st level. Lingering Song is alright ... but at early levels the combat doesn't usually last too long anyway unless things are going badly. Force of Personality can be nice - lets you not care about WIS score at all, essentially. If you are following my suggestion, Extra Music is a must. If you are thinking about multiclassing, some of the options in the Complete Adventurer are nice. But personally I am not a fan of combining paladin and Bard because that tends to make the bard a frontline fighter (don't know why, but it does in most people's minds) so I stay away from that. Ironskin Chant is alright, but the best DR is to stay off the front line, personally! Obscure Lore is a decent midlevel feat if you have enough party members that you don't need to focus on staying alive in combat.

In general, yeah - you can pull off a great bard. But seriously, if you're in a small party go for something else. If you don't you'll just be trying to compensate for whatever is missing ... and the bard isn't meant to compensate for missing skills. The bard is meant to enhance existing skills.

Hope this helps!

Edit: Oh, if you are allowed Book of Exhalted Deeds material, try and convince your DM to let you take Nymph's Kiss - the feat. As a bard, you should be able to squeeze it into your backstory ... and that feat is cool for CHA based characters.

 

[Herobizkit]

Bards are great. They're the ultimate can-do character class (other than Druid).

The most common fighting build I've seen for bards is the Swashbucker/Fencer/Duelist type. They usually wield rapiers and forego armor (except for a bucker). Max out your Dex and take the Weapon Finesse feat to increase your to-hit for both melee and ranged attacks (provided you stick with the weapons outlined in the feat description).

Multi-classing definitely would give your character a greater focus, but you'd have to decide for yourself what that would be. Bard with a warrior class would increase your combat ability, Bard with a priest class would up your healing and defensive abilities, and Bard with a wizard class would increase your spellcasting potential.

If you go with a warrior-type, I would recommend any and all of them; Paladin (to capitolize on a high Charisma score -- but only works if your DM waives alignment restrictions), Ranger (for some free TWF or to specialize in ranged attacks), Barbarian (to up your Strength and for some Viking Skald-like flavour), or your basic Fighter (for weapon proficiencies and bonus feats).

For a priest-type, I would seriously consider Druid over Cleric, unless your party doesn't already have a Cleric. Druids have that lovely Celtic flavour that nicely accompanies the Bard class. It's important to note that Druids have proscribed weapons, so your Duelist build wouldn't work so well with this guy. But, you would have increased healing abilities, plus shapechanging, and spontaneous animal summoning spells.

For a wizard-type, it's pretty much up in the air. Sorcerer becomes an obvious choice, again capitolizing on a high Cha score. Wizards are good if you want lots of spell choices, but I would take Sorc over Wizard. You'd get lower level spells overall, but more of them.

 

[Nonlethal Force]

I would add, however, that if you are thinking of multiclassing into an arcane order - ask yourself if you wouldn't just be better off going straight other arcane class without the bard. The bard's spell list is very limited and already duplicated for the most part by another arcanist. So instead of overlapping the lower levels spells, you could have advanced and gotten the higher level spells.

That also really makes me wonder if it also wouldn't be better to do a melee/sorcerer build over a melee/bard build. The reason I say this is because once a melee starts - nobody in their right mind is going to want to stow their weapon and draw their instrument. [Unless you are ultra cheesey and take something like Perform(oratory) - which doesn't make sense. Who can perform an oratory while hefting weapons around, blocking, and swinging? Anyway, I digress] So as soon as you go melee you've really established that you're a sub-par melee (because of the multiclass) OR you're a sub-par bard (because of the multi-class) but never can you be both at the same time.

Multi-classing into a ranged makes more sense, because there you can interchange your instrument and weapon without much fear.

Multi-classing into cleric is alright, but there again I have to ask if you are going to go cleric, why not go the whole way? Clerics get great buffs and they have the armor. So about the only thing that a bard can do that a straight cleric can't (through a spell) is the bardic knowledge checks (and a few higher skillpoints). So in my mind, a bard/cleric would may well be better off to be just a cleric.

Druid multi-class could have advantages, but there again you are setting up a one-or-the-other scenario. You either shapeshift or you play an instrument.

My point is that the bard's talents are intentionally unique. Many other classes can multi-class easily because their talents are similar to others and therefore they can mix and match in commonly shared situations. The bard's talents are so unique ... I honestly think multi-classing is better done using a different base than the bard.

Now, PrC are a totally diferent story - especially PrC that are geared for the bard and thus increase your bardic music/bardic knowledge. Those - go ahead right on!

And, as always, this is my opinion on the rules. Others will see it differently. And, much of it is flavor - so if you are looking for a singing fighter, then do it regardless of if there is a better build out there. In the games I DM, I'd rather have a player play a character that "feels right" than one that is min/maxed.

As I said earlier, good luck!

 

[Gabriel Stryffe]

...And is using a specially made buckler as a percussion instrument a really cool idea or a really stupid one? I'm still torn on that idea.

I think you should go with that. The idea of a specially made buckler to use a percussion instrument is at least fairly original. In my games I'm always getting Bards who play either guitars are lutes. No one wants to concentrate on other instruments like drums, ocorinas or dolcimers. I think anytime that you could work out a mult-function tool like your buckler that doubles as a drum it adds a deeper sense of originallity to the character.

...Tamborine, there's another instrument that's often overlooked when making up Bards.

 

[Evilhalfling]

There is a spell in CAdv that adds +1 to all inspire courage effects. As a swift action.
a must have in my book.

also in Cadv a masterwork drum adds + 1 to damage bonus from Inspire courage, but reduces the save bouns by 1. You can argue your buckler acts the same or not.

The Sublime Cord makes you a very powerful caster, but you can only enter it at 10th level.
and it is very coslty in terms of skill points (48 ranks - 38 not in perform)
SC adds arcane casting catching you up to 1 level behind a sorcerer! You can pick from either bard or wizard spell lists. The one NPC I made took advantage of the bard spell list, and could cast ottos dance at 13th level.

ths seeker for the song doesnt look that great.

 

[Shallown]

Another route that our party bard has followed is to go with use magic device and be a swiss army knife. He always seems to turn the tide of battle when some unexpected thing happens. Mainly due to the fact he has a million scrolls and half used wands. He is prepared for most any situation due to his grab bag of spells he utilizes with Use magic device. He doesn't use it to be overly powerful but he sure helps out.

Focus on your skills, and inspire courage which can be a life saver. All you need to do to realize that is count up the extra damage you inflict due to your singing and the hits that would have been misses other wise. There is an eberron feat that boost your inspire courage by +1 and a spell in Complete Adventurer that does the same as a swift action so it is possible to be +3 at like 3rd level. A very serious if womehwatover powered bonus. Even a +2 is enough to turn the tide in battle.

As others have said this works best in a 5 or more person party when the basics have been covered.

Later

 

[LordVyreth]

How many perform skills are common for a bard? If I remember right, they changed it from 3.0 where you got one perform instrument or skill for every rank you have. Now you have to pay for each intrument/skill separately, right? Are there work-arounds for that? Assuming I can get the Percusso-Shield, I was thinking of taking Performs for that, a guitar, and just singing for when I'm without an instrument. Is that a pretty viable combination?

I'm not really thinking to multi-class into arcane or divine caster. I could just go Sublime Cord if I really wanted the former, and the latter isn't really viable without going Mystic Theurge, and I wouldn't want to lose that much health, bardic knowledge, and music use anyway. If I did multiclass into a fighter type, I only was thinking a few levels anyway; just enough to bump up the BAB and hit points a bit and add a few more feats. I realize monk and paladin are out by definition, but is there a ruling on how Barbarian works? Have rage and bardic music been ruled incompatible?

As for the Seeker of Song, it's a tough call. Only about half the seeker songs seem all that viable, but the combat bonuses you get while singing are nice, though the combined song and swift action song introduction pretty much keep you out of combat. What about the old Virtuoso from the 3.0 Song and Silence? It seems to be the inspiration for the 3.5 bard PrCs. Oh, what about bladesinger? Did they update that from the Tome and Blood version to 3.5 anywhere?

 

[Stalker0]

I belive there's a feat in Complete Arcane called arcane strike, that lets you convert spell energy into attack energy on your weapons...pretty good for a bard.

If your dm uses stunts or anything that's the best way to make use of your awesome skills in combat.

 

[gabrion]

I'm a big fan of focussing the bard on social interaction and spying/stealth. In combat though, staying out of melee and performing/casting spells/shooting a bow is the place to be. I won't offer a ton of advice here (after all you can go pretty much any direction with the bard), but I will say a bit about inspiring courage.

I think Inspire Courage (in a party with four others, three of which I'm guessing will actually be fighting), is the most useful tool you'll have to help in combat. You have to do a few things to maximize the output of that ability though.

• Use a horn. Horns grant an additional +1 to the damage bonus from inspire courage.
• Use inspirational boost from CAdv. This spell is cast as a swift action and increases the bonuses from inspire courage by 1.
• Get the Words of Creation feat from BoED. This feat will be hard to use at first, as it does subdual damage, but it doubles the bonuses from inspire courage. Depending on how your DM interprets this, you will be adding either +3/+4 or +4/+6 to attack and damage rolls. All this is possible at low levels too.

When I played a bard like this I loved to keep track of how much extra damage was done during combat because of me. You'll be suprised to see that with enough people fighting, it will often be more than the party "tank."

As to your question of CAdv, there are some nice spells and feats in there and I would buy the book even if you don't use it to play this bard in particular. For PrCs you're probably better off using one from CA or CW, or even something from Forgotten Realms if you can.

Anyway, good luck.