Any word yet on what's happening to monsters?

[Shade]

I'm no fan of the Mearls' Monster Makeover critters. Why can't we follow the lead of the mind flayers of Thoon and have the best of both worlds? Those of us who want our classic creatures relatively consistent throughout the editions can be satisfied while those wanting the stripped-down, easier-to-use-in-a-single-encounter versions can also have satisfaction?

 

[Voadam]

Good call. I never really saw the need for the distinction between humanoid and monstrous humanoid for that matter, either. If it's weird enough, make it an aberration. Otherwise, the differences were fairly minor. It seemed like it was mainly an excuse to increase the BAB.

Bingo. Monstrous humanoids are stronger per hd than giants or humanoids.

"Monstrous humanoids are similar to humanoids, but with monstrous or animalistic features. They often have magical abilities as well."

Yet gnolls, lizardmen, troglodytes, locathah, and kobolds, etc. are humanoids.

 

[Voadam]

I want skills to be revamped to make it easier to do a monster statblock. Cross-class, synergies, x4 for level/HD 1, different amounts of skill points and class skills for adding on classes to HD, not to mention ability modifiers, skill feats, and racial bonuses. Could be much simpler for something that rarely has meaning in game use at my table.

I want racial HD by type to be an option so we don't have the 2HD gnoll being mechanically so different from the 1 HD hobgoblin.

I want feats to be more straightforward in their bonuses so they can be in the stat blocks and not hidden circumstance effects, i.e. dodge = +1 AC.

 

[Aloïsius]

Bingo. Monstrous humanoids are stronger per hd than giants or humanoids.



Yet gnolls, lizardmen, troglodytes, locathah, and kobolds, etc. are humanoids.

Wait. if giants and monstruous humanoids are now mere humanoids with various subtype, spells like xxx person will have an use ? It will be a real improvment.

 

[Simplicity]

The concept of HD should be taken out back and shot.
It's unnecessary complication. A monster with a d12 HD should never get a 1 or a 12, it just throws the balance of the encounter off.

Example a 5 HD undead creature with no Con bonus can either have 5 hp, or 60 hp due to totally arbitrary rolls of the dice. A 5th level barbarian can be the same way. The rules shouldn't FORCE me to fudge barbarian HD rolls so my players can have a good time.

Have three hp types: Tall (1d6/CR), Grande (1d6+3/CR), and Venti (1d6+6/CR).
Use these for players and monsters.

Oh yeah, and monster subtypes should go too.

 

[danzig138]

Frankly, I think it was a heck of a lot easier to DM when monsters DIDN'T have ability scores.
That entire aspect of that stat block should just be removed from non-class-based creatures.

And I think that's a poor idea. I like having the ability scores for the creatures. I always wondered in the earlier editions why they didn't have a full array. Again, this is one of those things that's easier to ignore or remove than it is to add.

I also think that one of the biggest things that slows down my game is initiative. It's not hard, but it's ANNOYING.

Pretend this is a piece of paper on which is written the following:
Bob:
Tom:
Dick:
Harry:

1:
2:
3:
4:
etc.
At the beginning of the fight, everyone rolls initiative, and calls it out when you call their name. As they do, you jot it down next to their name, like
Bob: 14
Tom: 19
Dick: 3
Harry: 10

For bad guys, you can divide them into groups, or individually (I prefer groups and bosses)
1: 10
2: 10
3: 10
4: 10

How is this particularly time consuming or annoying? No arrow drawing (?), no "What's your Dex?" It takes about maybe 30 seconds to get initiative. Maybe a minute if I decide to light up a smoke while doing so.

 

[Irda Ranger]

They did mention (in the intro video) that monsters will be more streamlined into their roles for combat. I think this will mean they'll be simplified and built around a specific purpose in combat. You'll have the ranged only monsters, tank only monsters, etc.

I think this is right. The Orc page will have "Orc Brute" and "Orc Shaman."

What I'm hoping is that all monsters will have a range of CR's, with a dirt simple progression that the DM can "wing" at the table. Right from the MM page you'd have "Orc Shaman, CR1", two Orc Brutes, CR1, and the leader, and Orc Brute, CR3. Bam. Instant encounter. I don't want to have to add Fighter levels to one of the orcs. Takes way to much time.

That being said, there shouldn't be any reason I can't add Fighter levels - just that I don't need to.

This makes them more like the creatures in a MMORPG and a lot less suitable for story uses.

Really? I haven't found clearly defined classes (Fighter, Mage, Archer, Assassin) to be harmful to roleplaying. Just because the Orc is a "Tank version" of the Orc doesn't mean he won't have motives and goals. He'll still have a personality if I want him too.

Roleplaying isn't what's on the page. I don't need, nor do I want, WotC to tell me how to roleplay the monsters. Give me the tools to adjudicate combat and I can handle the rest, thanks.

 

[Simplicity]

And I think that's a poor idea. I like having the ability scores for the creatures. I always wondered in the earlier editions why they didn't have a full array. Again, this is one of those things that's easier to ignore or remove than it is to add.


Pretend this is a piece of paper on which is written the following:
Bob:
Tom:
Dick:
Harry:

1:
2:
3:
4:
etc.
At the beginning of the fight, everyone rolls initiative, and calls it out when you call their name. As they do, you jot it down next to their name, like
Bob: 14
Tom: 19
Dick: 3
Harry: 10

For bad guys, you can divide them into groups, or individually (I prefer groups and bosses)
1: 10
2: 10
3: 10
4: 10

How is this particularly time consuming or annoying? No arrow drawing (?), no "What's your Dex?" It takes about maybe 30 seconds to get initiative. Maybe a minute if I decide to light up a smoke while doing so.

Well, first off you've already had to do something non-official to get it to work. You aren't rolling initiative for every monster? Why not? Isn't it easy? When your party gets to 6 people or so, it gets annoying to scan the list of 6 people plus NPCs plus 1 monster group (I only use 1 initiative for the DM's group) every single turn. So, I usually sort this list before anyone goes... but then usually I have to call out the "next" player's name every action. This means that no one is ever prepared for their turn unless that list is in front of everyone (Combat Pad helps with that at least). And even then, because the order is always shifting, most people don't keep track well.

If the players just followed the same trick YOU already use and all go in one group, then they could just go from left to right like it's a card game. When's the last time you spent 30 seconds in a card game figuring out who goes next. You don't even have to think about it.

 

[Knight Otu]

The concept of HD should be taken out back and shot.

Funny, I agree with the words you say, but not with what you want say with them.
I believe that Hit Dice themselves need to be thrown out, and hit points be determined in a different fashion. I've explained why in another thread, maybe I'll repost it here.

Creature types should stay, but they should be mostly consolidated, their differences should be clarified, and their names should less imply a magical setting, so that when 'Modern 4dventures' rolls around, you don't have Magical Beasts running around in nonmagical settings where they nonetheless fit.

 

[Irda Ranger]

Prepare to see your iconic creatures screwed over like the beholder, rust monster, and ogre mage.

Prepare to see more "video gamey" feel to these monsters.

Prepare to see some sacred cows sacrificed sky high.

The game is turning into less realism. Creatures aren't just born into a category for PCs to slay. "Oh, it's a ranged monster! Watch out!" or "These things can tear you apart in melee!" Whatever happened to role play in 4E?

Give a rest, man. It's been less than 48 hours and this attitude is already old. Until you've read the rules, and seen the full suite, you can't get this excited (bad or good).