Anyone done work on a Shaman "core class"?

[Nail]

Yep, I have both the Green Ronin (Shaman Handbook) and Mongoose (Encyc. Div.: Shamans) books. Read 'em, liked 'em.

...But neither of them quite fit my own concept of an Animist (that is, a Shaman or Spirit Priest). Moreover, they both have potential game-balance problems if they're taken as is.

I've been working on my own version for the last month. The area of "spirit magic" is a huge hole in the 3e D&D magic scheme. I have no intension of puplishing, or even posting something on a web site somewhere. I'd just like a Shaman that works....and I'm looking for ideas.

Are there any out there?

 

[hong]

OA has a shaman class.

I've also used it as the basis for an alt.priest, which is on my D&D page. The site seems to be down at the moment, so I've attached the class description as a Word doc.

 

[Nail]

Thanks, Hong

Taken from Hong's Priest Class:

Turn or rebuke fiend: At 14th level, the priest’s ability to turn or rebuke undead extends to fiends (outsiders with the evil subtype). Each attempt to turn or rebuke fiends uses one of the priest’s turning attempts for that day, just as if the fiends were undead. A fiend’s malevolent spirit is much harder for the priest to deal with than most forms of undead. It gains turn resistance equal to half its spell resistance.

A fiend with HD equal to half the priest’s levels or fewer (after taking its turn resistance into account) is banished to its home plane for a year and a day.

Hong, could you tell me a bit about your design philosophy for this one? I'm thinking of including a "Rebuke Outsider" ability for my Animist class, but I'd have it as a cleric rebuking Undead, except at 6 levels lower. Ability gained at 7th level. No SR for th' rebuke, as in yours.

Thoughts?

 

[hong]

Re: Thanks, Hong

Hong, could you tell me a bit about your design philosophy for this one? I'm thinking of including a "Rebuke Outsider" ability for my Animist class, but I'd have it as a cleric rebuking Undead, except at 6 levels lower. Ability gained at 7th level. No SR for th' rebuke, as in yours.

This is what I had in mind:

- Since I was basing the priest on the OA shaman, and I reduced the priest's BAB compared to the shaman, I wanted to have something to compensate at high levels. The turn fiend ability seemed appropriate.

- From a flavour point of view, turning evil outsiders seemed better than rebuking any outsider. I can see good priests forcing demons to flee, but I can't really see them ordering angels (celestials) around. Similarly, I can see evil priests commanding demons, but they would tend to blast angels rather than making them flee.

The convention in western folklore is usually that demons and other evil monsters meddle in the affairs of mankind (and can thus be commanded or turned), but good outsiders tend to be more remote. Although for a less overtly good-vs-evil feel, I can see wanting to change that.

- The turn resist is because, unlike undead, outsiders often have low HD for their challenge rating. A CR 17 marilith only has 9 HD, for instance; a balor has 13. Without some form of bolstering, a priest would beable to rip through fiends much higher than her level without too much trouble.

 

[Malin Genie]

I did a quick Shaman class on another thread; based off the Bard class rather than the Cleric class.

In essence, BAB 3/4, hd d6, light armour, shield and simple weapons (like the Bard) although if you are going for primitive/animist feel you could simply use druid proficiences, minus, of course, the scimitar which should never have been in there.

Six spell levels and caster progression like the Bard. Like the bard, a thematic spell list (in this case, nature/spirit etc.) Spells that fit the theme well go in at a lower level (e.g. Bardic suggestion is L2 not L3, Bardic charm monster L3 not L4, etc.) For a shaman, Speak with Animals might be 1st level, Speak with Plants 2nd level, Control Weather 4th or 5th level, Speak with Dead 2nd level, Banishment 3rd (?) etc etc. Give them a few unique spells suitable for them (like the Bard gets Sculpt Sound, Tailor Memory, &c.)

4 skill points/level base and a good range of skills. include Animal Empathy, Handle Animal, Wilderness Lore, Diplomacy, Spellcraft, Concentration, and go from there.

Give them two good saves (Maybe For + Wil) and a couple of abilities in place of Bardic knowledge and Bardic Song. For example, Animal Companion and a set of abilities useful in dealing with spirits (you could base it off Knowledge(spirits) like the Bardic music abilities are based off Perform: with 3 ranks you can identify spirits with a check against a certain DC, with 6 ranks you can communicate with spirits, with 9 ranks you can see spirits even if invisible or ethereal, with 12 ranks you can ?turn ?rebuke spirits. All depends on how you see 'spirits' in your game world.)

And there you have it, the druid as it should have been - I mean, sorry, the Shaman.

 

[Nail]

Re: Re: Thanks, Hong

Thanks again! Here's some more "thoughts":

- From a flavour point of view, turning evil outsiders seemed better than rebuking any outsider. I can see good priests forcing demons to flee, but I can't really see them ordering angels (celestials) around. Similarly, I can see evil priests commanding demons, but they would tend to blast angels rather than making them flee.

Sure. I was thinking of animists much more generally, and perhaps more primitively. (Animist = Shaman)

I was thinking of animists being fundamentally connected to the prime material, and the spirits that reside there. The animist's power somes from his dealings with these prime material spirits. At 1st level the animist gains the power to rebuke spirits....later (say, 7th) the animist has mastered his rebuking power to turn it against "outsider spirits". Thus, outsiders of all alignments are affected the same way: rebuke or command.

As an aside, this power explains why animists are rare and/or forgotten now IMC. The outsiders (and the Gods) did their best to crush them.

- The turn resist is because, unlike undead, outsiders often have low HD for their challenge rating. A CR 17 marilith only has 9 HD, for instance; a balor has 13. Without some form of bolstering, a priest would beable to rip through fiends much higher than her level without too much trouble.

This is the part I'm struggling with (mostly because of lack of play-testing abilities right now). You don't think reducing the animists effective rebuking levels by 6 is enough? Perhaps if it were increased to -8 levels? I looked thru the MM and it looked "about right",......but I could be convinced either way. Half SR seems too high.......

Looking for wisdom from "AoOui"

 

[Nail]

I did a quick Shaman class on another thread; based off the Bard class rather than the Cleric class.

This looks neat, but not quite what I had in mind. I want a full spell progression priest, that's fundamentally different from the cleric. Different source of power, different feel. The druid is just too much like a "nature cleric" for my tastes.

I'm borrowing stuff pretty heavily from the two shamans d20 books I own, including the no-prep aspect of spell casting. And I'm stealing whole swaths of stuff from mongoose's book (the better one of the two, IMHO), including how the animist learns spells: as domain lists, one domain per spirit ally the animist has.

But more ideas are very welcome.....

 

[Khorod]

A somewhat unique take on shamans in 3rd edition, based in part on the 2nd Edition Shaman from Spells & Magic...

Pre-Release of Netbook of Planes' Spirit Magic

Work continues...

 

[Coredump]

Kalamar Players Guide has a Shaman class.

 

[Afrodyte]

As a resource on how a shaman perceives and interacts with the spirits and their world, I would heartily recommend Mage: the Ascension's Dreamspeaker Tradition Book (revised edition). It has a wealth of information that is useful even without using the system stuff.

Now, speaking as someone whose view of the world most closely meshes with the broadest definition of animism, I would say that the exclusive focus on nature-based magic would be erroneous. What about ancestor spirits? Spirits that have never touched the mortal world? Spirits of a nature completely alien to what is understood by most people? Despite being described as primitive, I belive the animist/shaman perspective of the world contains a great degree of complexity and depth. I believe exploring these things would be a great asset to creating a unique role for this class, one that goes beyond being a derivative or hybridization of other classes.