D&D 5E Anyone else annoyed at Wizards lack of Minion summoners?

Satyrn

First Post
I had an idea for cantrip. It summons an imp that appears beside a creature, takes a swipe at it, then vanishes.

At higher levels, it summons something stronger, in a manner matching the other damaging cantrips.
 

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Ath-kethin

Elder Thing
I had an idea for cantrip. It summons an imp that appears beside a creature, takes a swipe at it, then vanishes.

At higher levels, it summons something stronger, in a manner matching the other damaging cantrips.

I like this idea, but I wouldn't call it an imp. If you call it an.imp, people will be whipping out their Monster Manuals and demanding that the creature do all kinds of other stuff too.

I'd suggest changing the wording to "an extraworldly creature" and describe that it can be any fiend/elemental/whatever you like, but its abilities are the same regardless of it's form (since it's limited by the summoning magic).

That way you can scale it up without worrying about what to call it.
 

cbwjm

Seb-wejem
I had an idea for cantrip. It summons an imp that appears beside a creature, takes a swipe at it, then vanishes.

At higher levels, it summons something stronger, in a manner matching the other damaging cantrips.

Cool concept for a spell.
 

Stalker0

Legend
I do miss some low level summons. Feels like you have to be decently high level to even start a summoner.

That said I don’t think we need need summon monster x all over again. I liked the later 3.5 summons that gave you a specific creature.

Easier to balance and less flipping through stat blocks
 

schnee

First Post
Nah, it's perfect as it is, and it puts the type of summons firmly into the flavor and domain of each type of caster.

Wizard lore from the very beginning has had the notion of delving into forbidden knowledge, bargaining and extorting to play an incredibly dangerous game - with demons and devils. They are the best at traversing the planes, seeing into them, exploring them, and it makes sense that they'd work with the intelligent creatures that can expand their intelligence. And that's not even getting into the animating objects and all the other things they can do.

Why should Wizards get every single type of summons? This isn't 3E any more. Wizards are scoped down to be kind of sane now.
 

Hawk Diesel

Adventurer
I had an idea for cantrip. It summons an imp that appears beside a creature, takes a swipe at it, then vanishes.

At higher levels, it summons something stronger, in a manner matching the other damaging cantrips.

I like this idea, but do you have a particular rider or effect in mind? Otherwise, Ray of Frost could be reskinned as Summon Ice Mephit to do this, and can even be described as it nibbling on your target's ankles as the explanation of the speed reduction.

Acid Splash could become Summon Soldier Ant, who appears to spit acid in your target's face.

When you use Thorn Whip, it could be summoning a Giant Frog by your side to lashing your target with its tongue.

Actually... I really wanna make a conjurer now.
 

Hussar

Legend
Nah, it's perfect as it is, and it puts the type of summons firmly into the flavor and domain of each type of caster.

Wizard lore from the very beginning has had the notion of delving into forbidden knowledge, bargaining and extorting to play an incredibly dangerous game - with demons and devils. They are the best at traversing the planes, seeing into them, exploring them, and it makes sense that they'd work with the intelligent creatures that can expand their intelligence. And that's not even getting into the animating objects and all the other things they can do.

Why should Wizards get every single type of summons? This isn't 3E any more. Wizards are scoped down to be kind of sane now.

Couple of points.

1. It's hardly just a 3e thing. The summoner wizard has been in the game since 1e. 5e is the first edition I actually flat out cannot play a character that I've been playing since early 2e. Well, I could play him as a druid, but, that just felt really wonky.

2. Summoning in 3e was hardly the breaking point of the game. Summoning was never considered a really over powered issue for wizards. Druids maybe, but, not really wizards.

So, I don't see why summoning got stripped entirely (or very nearly) from wizards.
 

Leatherhead

Possibly a Idiot.
Except you have druids right over there who get all sorts of summoning spells. You can't really argue that it's too powerful to summon creatures if we already have a class that can do it.
The Shepard is the only official subclass I have outright banned at my table. Just so I don't have to deal with summoners.

Personally, I'd prefer they do a series of "summon monster" spells, but, you can't actually specify monsters. You get a generic "summon monster I" monster that has this power and these attacks. Cast Summon Monster II and you get more Summon Monster I monsters or a single bigger Summon Monster II monster which has these attacks and that power.

That reminds me of Psionic Power Astral Construct, more than Summon Monster I-IX. Not that they would split it up over 9 different spells anymore, they would do maybe up to 3 (with each successive one getting new abilities, like flight) and let the monster scale with the spell slot.
 

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
I think wizard has enough, they don't need summoning on top of that.

But another pet-master class could work.

I would love a class dedicated entirely to summoning. One sub goes full Eidolon, where the pet becomes the focus of the character in combat, another gets access to multiple pets at a time, another gets benefits when a summon dies, or can blow up a pet to damage enemies, maybe with the ability to revive summons when an enemy dies, and/or animate the shadows of slain enemies as a reaction (using a spell slot).

Just, the whole power level of the class is focused on being the best summoner in the game.

Give it new spells with 1 round summons that just come in, wreck face/heal the team/guard the team/freeze enemies/whatever, and then leave.
 

Arilyn

Hero
Nah, it's perfect as it is, and it puts the type of summons firmly into the flavor and domain of each type of caster.

Wizard lore from the very beginning has had the notion of delving into forbidden knowledge, bargaining and extorting to play an incredibly dangerous game - with demons and devils. They are the best at traversing the planes, seeing into them, exploring them, and it makes sense that they'd work with the intelligent creatures that can expand their intelligence. And that's not even getting into the animating objects and all the other things they can do.

Why should Wizards get every single type of summons? This isn't 3E any more. Wizards are scoped down to be kind of sane now.

DnD should be able to handle a broad range of wizardly types depending on the campaign and/or player preference. Delving into dangerous lore and making bargains with powerful, probably evil entities is just one flavour. I really don't think the game is making wizards better by removing the summoning spells.The wizard class should be broad enough to cover the many types of wizards that exist in fiction.
 

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