Anyone else annoyed by psionics?

[Nail]

"Battlefield control" is an issue. IMX, wizards and druids are best at this......but then again, I've not really seen a psion (3.5e) try to do so. They've always been maxed out in the "artillery" and "mobility" departments.

An honest question: How do psions fair with "controlling the battlefield"?

For Wiz, it starts out early with grease, obscuring mist, and silent image. It only gets better with level. (grin) Psions???

 

[Psion]

I firmly believe psionics have no place in D&D.

Forgive me for having BadWrongFun.

 

[Psion]

"Battlefield control" is an issue. IMX, wizards and druids are best at this......but then again, I've not really seen a psion (3.5e) try to do so. They've always been maxed out in the "artillery" and "mobility" departments.

An honest question: How do psions fair with "controlling the battlefield"?

For Wiz, it starts out early with grease, obscuring mist, and silent image. It only gets better with level. (grin) Psions???

Druids get a pretty potent early start with entangle.

I've not had a high level shaper under 3.5, but I tend to think that they would do fairly well at high levels when mass ectoplasmic cocoon kicks in at higher levels, though it does have the disadvantage of interfering with affecting the victim with attacks, unlike web or entangle or forcecage.

 

[Nail]

I(oh, btw, this is only for fire or cold, if useing electricity or sonic then the sorc is doing the same damage or ahead on damage suddenly).

Hold on there, bucko.

You say this bit as if the Sor could easily change damage type to fit the situation. You and I both know that's not true (we've talked this through before). The Sor (or Wiz!) is stuck with whatever he (or she!) chose......the psion can make it up as he goes along.

And that ignoring the fact that psions different damage have different saving throws. Rogues? Use cold damage, my young psion.

Toe-to-toe, the psion is a better artillery peice, both in damage output, damage type, and mobility while doing that damage. (The Sor has to use a full round action to use the metamagics!)

The question is whether there are enough trade-offs to make this balanced. If the only way to make this balanced is to have 4 to 5 encounters per day that require magic...well then: wow. Just wow.

 

[Brennin Magalus]

Forgive me for having BadWrongFun.

You are forgiven, but I can do nothing about the enforcers that have been dispatched to your home.

 

[Nail]

Druids get a pretty potent early start with entangle.

Tell me about it! My campaign's orcs hate the entangle spell.

I've not had a high level shaper under 3.5, but I tend to think that they would do fairly well at high levels when mass ectoplasmic cocoon kicks in at higher levels, though it does have the disadvantage of interfering with affecting the victim with attacks, unlike web or entangle or forcecage.

Web also interferes, providing cover. Cover that can be burned, however. Forcecage can interfere, obviously.

So, you're saying psions in your game haven't tried battlefield control? Hmm. That's probably playing style, though, right?

 

[Nail]

You are forgiven, but I can do nothing about the enforcers that have been dispatched to your home.

No worries, mate. He's a psion! He'll just un-load all of his pps at once; that is their strength, after all!

 

[Mr. Kaze]

Mildly off-topic...

I switched from Arcane casting to Psionics partially because I hated the quantity of spells that appeared both on arcane and divine spell lists (esp abjurations), but mostly because I hated the spell slots mechanic. After houseruling a couple of things to bring the sheer artillery power back in line with a slightly improved sorceror, it doesn't play too badly.

Frankly, what I really hate, is "Spell Resistance: No". It's new to 3.5 and it completely sucks. Look, for example, at Crystal Shard. It's magical enough to use a ranged touch attack (so it's going straight through physical armor and even Shield and Mage Armor) but isn't subject to spell resistance? Meaning that Golems aren't immune to freakin' glass? Get real.

Now try to imagine playing a SR heavy adventure like City of the Spider Queen. With Cloudkill -- that now ignores SR.

Even if you can figure out why all of the Drow are using evokations instead of acid arrow and cloudkill on each other, you'll never figure out why their bajillions of racial enemies (Duergar, like in the books?) aren't cutting loose with cloudkill on their cities either.

Psionics clearly demonstrates the deficiencies of the Sorceror class and makes for substantially more viscious combats. But what's really broken in 3.5e is SR.

 

[Scion]

You say this bit as if the Sor could easily change damage type to fit the situation.

I assume no such thing. I have already said earlier that only the psions get to change energy type, but this is what makes it actually be viable later on. It is fixing a problem, not creating one.

Also, since the damage dealing always took into account useing fire or cold then it is more than reasonable to state that if not useing those then the numbers change dramatically to favor the sorc.

If useing electricity then the psion goes from being ahead to being behind. If useing sonic then the psion is way, way behind.

Leaving out that bit of info would have been nearly criminal. Since I had already stated earlier about the energy types though that shouldnt have been necissary to repeat.

Rogues? Use cold damage, my young psion.

Assuming that you always know what class people are, and that you have a choice in the matter (energy ball? hmm.. there is a rogue, and a summoned cold immune guy, and that fighter overthere is apparently resistant or immune to my last fire blast I hit him with.. ).

Also, every class has an option that is good against certain builds. Looks like a rogue who looks obviously like a rogue and goes up against psions often will know to get Cold resist 15 put on his armor (or whatever that enchantment is). That will fix him right up. Shoring up ones weaknesses is what the game is about sometimes.

Toe-to-toe, the psion is a better artillery peice, both in damage output, damage type, and mobility while doing that damage. (The Sor has to use a full round action to use the metamagics!)

I certainly hope that the psion wins in artillery, as the comparison shows he only barely wins even there though. Still, the versitility is what makes it a viable option at higher levels, whereas it is not for the other caster types.

Also, while the sorc does have to use a full attack type action (I prefer that notation as people dont get it confused with an actual round for casting) the psion has to blow focus. Which means that he is limited to one metapsionic feat per combat unless spending yet more resources to 'maybe' be able to do it more.

The sorc could even apply more than one metamagic feat to a spell if needed, the psion has to spend a massive amount of resources to be able to accomplish that.

But even as stated above, the psion isnt that far ahead in damage. Especially if he has to choose to not deal cold or fire. Also, the sorc has more options even after this little blast fest.

The question is whether there are enough trade-offs to make this balanced. If the only way to make this balanced is to have 4 to 5 encounters per day that require magic...well then: wow. Just wow.

Of course, the game assumes that many encounters per day. If you wish to use less that is your perogative, but complaining about how certain things dont work when you are going against the rules just doesnt make any sense at all.

There are lots of tradeoffs back and forth though, this is only one example.

Of course it is with the most favorable one since spells damage dealing potential goes to zero as levels increase. The fact that the psion can actually 'maybe' do it at higher levels is a fix to what was wrong in the magic system.

 

[Apok]

The question is whether there are enough trade-offs to make this balanced. If the only way to make this balanced is to have 4 to 5 encounters per day that require magic...well then: wow. Just wow.

You mean you don't have 4 to 5 encounters (not necessarily combat) per day where magic comes in really handy?

Your DM is letting you off easy.