Anyone else annoyed by psionics?

[Droid101]

Rules As Written.

In the DMG, under designing encounters, it often talks about how many challenges in a row the PCs can face. It says that by the 4th encounter, things are liable to go poorly for the PCs.

I don't have the DMG here. Page number, anyone?

4th combative encounter. This isn't counting that encounter with the blacksmith where I used charm/dominate person to get a better price. Or the encounter where I cast veil on everyone to sneak around a building. Or the encounter...

In a given day, I could see anywhere from 5-10 encounters, all requiring some combination of skills, magic, fighting prowess, luck, and quick thinking to get through.

 

[Psion]

Rules As Written.

In the DMG, under designing encounters, it often talks about how many challenges in a row the PCs can face. It says that by the 4th encounter, things are liable to go poorly for the PCs.

Ah. That's probably text associated with the "20% of resources per encounter" thumbrule for an encounter of equal CR. Of course, you realize that's just an "average case", and not really "rules" so much as DM advice and insight into encounter design.

 

[Nail]

Or he can hold back, just doing enough damage to put the fighters in striking distance of taking the enemies out in a short time, while still minimizing damage and taking advantage of the fact that fighter attacks don't cost PP, and save more points for the bigger fights later.

Got it. Sounds like a smart magic-user!

I was actually thinking of help in terms of "buff", etc.

Ah. That's probably text associated with the "20% of resources per encounter" thumbrule for an encounter of equal CR. Of course, you realize that's just an "average case", and not really "rules" so much as DM advice and insight into encounter design.

Sure.

But that's my point. Three encounters, on average, per day.

It's clearly not a rule, in the sense of a "5-ft step". It's a guideline, in the sense of "this is the way we expect the typical game to go". If your PCs can take 4 to 6 CR-appropriate encounters in a day => hey, more power to 'em!

Bringing it back to topic: Saying that psions are balanced because they "bottom out" after 3 encounters per day is silly. A typical party only has 3 encounters (on average!) between rest-breaks.

 

[Nail]

In a given day, I could see anywhere from 5-10 encounters, all requiring some combination of skills, magic, fighting prowess, luck, and quick thinking to get through.

..and I could see 20.

But seriously: how many do you actually have in a given day?

IME, I've kept track: about 3, on average. (Again, we're talking about encounters that are supposed to be challenging. "Gimmes" don't count. BTW: How many times have you charmed the blacksmith???) At the end of an adventure, the number is closer to 4.

Pay attention during your next couple o' games. Write it down. Tell me about it!

 

[Spatula]

Back to the question: So psions are individualists, then? The preponderance of their powers seem to imply they don't work well in groups. Few synergies with other PCs......

Very much so. A lot of effects that are "touch" range for wizards/clerics are "personal" range for psionics-users.

In general, psionics is good for buffing the "caster" (only) and for doing things to the enemy/environment.

 

[Spatula]

If useing electricity then the psion goes from being ahead to being behind. If useing sonic then the psion is way, way behind.

I believe using electricity would make the raw damage outputs equivalent, or very close to it. The actual damage would proabably still be in the psion's favor, since using electricity raises the DC and provides a bonus to checks to beat PR.

Even without using electricity, the psion's DCs will be higher than that of the sorcerer's, again showing that the raw damage numbers don't show the whole picture.

Man, I'm getting sick of these threads. I know, I know, no one's forcing me to post...

 

[drothgery]

I believe using electricity would make the raw damage outputs equivalent, or very close to it. The actual damage would proabably still be in the psion's favor, since using electricity raises the DC and provides a bonus to checks to beat PR.

I'm pretty sure that the extra point of damage per die works out a lot better on average than increasing the DC by 2; there's a reason why I almost never use Electricity, after all.

 

[Nail]

I'd be happy to run the numbers, if you can post what each energy type does.

From memory, I think it's something like:

• 
  Fire: +1 damage per die.
  Lightning: Normal, but penalty to saves for metal wearers
  Acid: .....dunno
  Sonic: -1 damage die.

I don't have an XPH here: how does increasing the DC work?

From experience looking at average damage per round from various weapon/Ftr combos, I can guess that increasing the DC is more effective than increasing the damage die. We are talking Ref saves, here, which are usually poor for most creatures (unlike Fort).

 

[Droid101]

..and I could see 20.

But seriously: how many do you actually have in a given day?

IME, I've kept track: about 3, on average. (Again, we're talking about encounters that are supposed to be challenging. "Gimmes" don't count. Pay attention during your next couple o' games. Write it down. Tell me about it!

I'm winding down my current campaign right now, so the numbers won't be accurate. We do one encounter a day right now. Nobody in my game is a big wizardy type with high damage spells to throw around, so nobody feels bad if there is only one combat. Everybody gets to shine; I like to make everyone feel like they can throw everything into it. If I had a psion in the group, I would most certainly plan it around making everyone feel more equal, by having several encounters in a day.

Like I said, special circumstance.

BTW: How many times have you charmed the blacksmith???)

Re-reading that, it does sound a little ridiculous. But from now on, when I'm a player, I'm going to charm every blacksmith I come across.

 

[Nail]

Re-reading that, it does sound a little ridiculous. But from now on, when I'm a player, I'm going to charm every blacksmith I come across.

LOL! Me too! ...wait, wait: I meant the bar-maids. You can have the blacksmiths.

This sort of arguement (the psion is just useless for charming blacksmiths!) comes up as a counterweight to the psion's strengths. ....I don't buy it.

It's true that the game is not all about combat. (Thank goodness!) But a great deal does depend on combat "in the average game". And if psions outshine arcanists in combat (usually, without special precautions), I'm not okay with that.

That's all I'm sayin'.