Anyone else getting tired of prestige classes?

[Psion]

Right. Add WOTC to the pile that can't do it right!

I dunno about that.

Not that I have been too happy with the two 3.5 classbooks, but I did note that in BoED, they actually made some arcane caster prestige classes that made them pay for their abilities with a caster level. When I saw that, I thought to myself "they finally GOT it."

Despite all the other crap in MiniHB, there were some neat and useful PRCs there.

And it was nice to see the hospitaler done right. Too bad about all the "9 spell levels in 10 levels" classes in complete divine.

 

[Driddle]

... Lacking a legitimate foundation in the campaign world, most so-called "prestige" class progressions are nothing more than a patchwork of special abilities put together by a player to represent a character concept that the system can't handle. ... The fact that this happens all too often reveals a major flaw in the "prestige" class system.

Nicely said, HM.
It's akin to someone taking a job at a locksmith shop in our world for a few months so that he can gain access to (steal?) lockpick gear, then working at a veterinarian clinic to learn how to muzzle a dog correctly, then applying for the police academy ... Well, no one does that. And if they did, they certainly wouldn't call themselves a 4th-level student/1st-level locksmith/1st-level animal handler/1st-level cop (or would that be commoner/rogue/ranger/paladin?) -- the individual in question would simply make up a special prestige title of his own: "Bob, Dabbler of Job Skills, Unique Unto Himself."

 

[BryonD]

Nicely said, HM.
It's akin to someone taking a job at a locksmith shop in our world for a few months so that he can gain access to (steal?) lockpick gear, then working at a veterinarian clinic to learn how to muzzle a dog correctly, then applying for the police academy ... Well, no one does that. And if they did, they certainly wouldn't call themselves a 4th-level student/1st-level locksmith/1st-level animal handler/1st-level cop (or would that be commoner/rogue/ranger/paladin?) -- the individual in question would simply make up a special prestige title of his own: "Bob, Dabbler of Job Skills, Unique Unto Himself."

As your own example demonstrates, this is not at all a problem of Prestige Classes. Rather it is a potential problem with the multiclassing system.

Further, it is not really even a problem with multi-classing mechanics. It is only a problem with those people who simultaneously are outraged by class dabbling and yet still allow it.

 

[Driddle]

Bryon is wrong; Driddle is right.

Thanks for your support, man.

 

[BryonD]

So what is the implication of someone quoting posts that do not exist from a user that does not exist?

Sounds kinda sad to me.

Certainly doesn't imply any faith in a position that stands on its own merits.

Hmmm. We do what we must.

 

[mattcolville]

I love prestige classes. But.

1. There are too many of them out there. WotC is the worst offender in this regard.

2. WotC is way too anal about using arcane language to get across their intent. They avoid saying "Must be a 5th level Paladin" but will instead come up with a series of restrictions that boil down to "Must be a 5th level paladin."

3. Too many of them are class restrictive. I'd like to see PrCs who's only requirements are "must be 9th level" and let the players decide if the abilities are good for their character.

4. I've come to the conclusion that they distract players from the game. In future, players in my game can only select the PrCs I've created for my setting. If they see a cool PrC in a product, too bad. I like the idea that a PrC represents special insight, or a method of training, or a guild or organization that are unique to the world and it's cultures.

 

[Olive]

I love prestige classes. But.

1. There are too many of them out there. WotC is the worst offender in this regard.

1. Surely Mongoose or one of the other 'Ultimate PrC Book' companies are much 'worse' WotC? Regardless, people keep saying there are too many, but I don't understand why. Sure there are too many for any one campaign, but I see new PrCs all the time that I can think of a cool use for. Even better some of them inspire new fluff for my world, which is always nice.

Points 2-4 I think were cool.

 

[Psion]

2. WotC is way too anal about using arcane language to get across their intent. They avoid saying "Must be a 5th level Paladin" but will instead come up with a series of restrictions that boil down to "Must be a 5th level paladin."

I really rather prefer that they didn't do that. I rather like that they make the classes flexible to fit different "front ends." It sort of makes them "object oriented", i.e., it makes them more useful to me by allowing me to mix and match different sources and not requiring me to do a whole lot of tweaking. For example, the lifeweaver PrC from Bow & Blade was obviously intended for Druids, but it works fine for Shamans.

 

[Olive]

I really rather prefer that they didn't do that. I rather like that they make the classes flexible to fit different "front ends." It sort of makes them "object oriented", i.e., it makes them more useful to me by allowing me to mix and match different sources and not requiring me to do a whole lot of tweaking. For example, the lifeweaver PrC from Bow & Blade was obviously intended for Druids, but it works fine for Shamans.

What I thought he meant was making it more open for other classes, but actually I think I agree with you more. There are too many PrCs that duplicate other core class abilities that might give a different entry into a class, not to mention monsters that have some of the skills inherently.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

You want to play a Samurai in my very occidental campaign? Now, how does that fit in?

Cheers!

Coming up with reasons to leave "Japan" and go to "England" is easy. There's a famous samurai who led a rebellion against the shogun shortly after the US visited (and humiliated) Japan. He tried to visit the US to learn more about western ways (it pays to study the enemy) but he never got to go. He was executed. That was sad. Now what if he had gotten away?

Then again, you could do what one of a zillion Robin Hood shows did, and have the samurai travel to England on some kind of quest. Once the quest is done, he hangs around his friends, although he keeps thinking of home.

(It helps if he didn't have a girlfriend back in Japan before he left, otherwise keeping him around will be mighty difficult. Of course, this doesn't work in a game with teleport.)

You wouldn't need a PrC to play one either; all you really need is Exotic Weapon Proficiency (katana), Improved Initiative, Power Atack and Quickdraw, and try to max out your Intimidate ranks. (Improved Unarmed Strike and Improved Grapple would also be nice.)