Anyone else getting tired of prestige classes?

[mattcolville]

I really rather prefer that they didn't do that. I rather like that they make the classes flexible to fit different "front ends." QUOTE]

Yeah, but I didn't say that though. I didn't say "All prestige classes should be..." I simply think that if the designers make a PrC for a specific class and level, as they sometimes do, then they should say so plainly rather than forcing us to go through the mental gymnastics required to decipher their original meaning.

Consider that I ALSO said I'd like to see some PrCs that really have NO requirements besides a given level, leaving it to the player, rather than the designer, to determine whether the PrC is good for his character.

 

[mattcolville]

1. Surely Mongoose or one of the other 'Ultimate PrC Book' companies are much 'worse' WotC?

No, because I don't count companies that flood the market with crap. I'm thinking here in terms of Green Ronin and Malhavoc et al. Not Mongoose and AEG.

 

[kamosa]

Yeah, but I didn't say that though. I didn't say "All prestige classes should be..." I simply think that if the designers make a PrC for a specific class and level, as they sometimes do, then they should say so plainly rather than forcing us to go through the mental gymnastics required to decipher their original meaning.

I agree. It seems that we all make this calculation and come to that point anyway. As a player I know what level I can start into a prestige class. I never think, MMMMM I have 2nd level spells and a +3 BAB I wonder what prestige class I can go into.

Just come up with the level limit and the types of classes that can enter a prestige class and we'll take it from there thank you very much.

 

[zodiki]

I like PrCs but I also agree they seem to be the filler of the day. However, a quick read of the PrC - especially it's flavor text usually indicates immediately if the work is using them as extra filler. I prefer writing my own, they are an invaluable way to create characters otherwise impossible using core classes.

 

[Bendris Noulg]

Just come up with the level limit and the types of classes that can enter a prestige class...

Was this meant as "minimum Character Level"?

 

[Driddle]

Why would BD assume I don't exist?

Sorry, HM, but when someone allows himself to be distracted by a message gimmick, it usually means he's run out of useful things to say on topic.

Anyway, Zodiki reaffirms my initial position when he says, "I prefer writing my own." -- This suggests that gamers would rather build their characters using very specific elements of their own choice than cobbling together a bunch of unrelated "prestige" class levels that don't exactly fit.

Then, as Thotas notes, "The issue of whether a PC takes the PrC is the least important part of the process. Especially since some PrCs are clearly meant to be opponents (ie, they are actually 'monsters' in disguise)." This reflects another odd aspect of the average DM mindset, in the belief that the campaign-development process has to be fair and transparent to the players. Let's face it, the DM runs the world; he sits behind a screen and controls 'fate' by various encounters and dice rolls, which he may or may not decide to 'fudge' at any moment to help the game progress. There's no reason it should be necessary for a DM to design a "prestige class" for a DM-controlled monster -- if Monster X needs access to Ability Y in Scenario Z, then *poof* he's got it! No further explanation necessary to the players (as long as it's internally consistent, that is. Remember, I'm talking about number-crunching behind the screen.).

So there are actually three different takes on the "prestige class" system that would be better reworked down different paths concurrently: 1. For players/PCs, allow them to buy special abilities separately as it fits the character concept without being forced to take a "level" of something else, and then apply a "title" to the character later as necessary. 2. For the DM-player relationship, offer preset special prestige class recipes (i.e. the standard prestige class levels as they exist now) as an incentive for players to invest in the campaign. 3. For DMs alone, totally ignore prestige classes and do whatever the heck is necessary behind the screen to offer exciting game scenes.

 

[BryonD]

Sorry, HM, but when someone allows himself to be distracted by a message gimmick, it usually means he's run out of useful things to say on topic.

Wow. Now that is a truly contorted, disfunctional bit of logic.
Honestly, if you think that was clever, then HappyMage is smarter than you are.

You won't need to ask around much to find that I am happy to argue with people around here. But there is a minimum intellectual threshold where engaging debate drops off to just a waste of time.

So welcome to my ignore list. Maybe when you get a little older we can try again.

 

[fourthmensch]

First off, I'll say that I love the concept of prestige classes. When I decided to switch (from 1e, no less) it was one of the main attractions--the idea that you can gain special, rare, crazy, and interesting powers by virtue of membership in a prestigious group.

Obviously, like everything else in the game, PrCs have to be controlled by the DM, or else they become meaningless or downright silly.

Sometimes I start to feel a little PrC-burnout. There's so freaking many of them, and many are uninspired, ridiculously over- or underpowered, etc. But on the whole, I like the proliferation in books like Complete Warrior and Complete Divine. Personally, I usually prefer to tweak the class, or else design my own based on existing examples, to match the flavor of the character/group/campaign. But there are still a lot of times I look at a new PrC and immediately think, "How can I whip this into a villain to terrify my players...?

The only proviso I have is that I often feel that the flip-side of things are not being given their proper due. With a book like CW or CD, I'm getting cover to cover crunch; if I decide to pick it up it will be because that's what I'm looking for. But then, when I jaunt to the old FLGS for the newest FR book, it will be guaranteed to have 20-30 pages of PrCs. It gets frustrating at times to see pure-crunch books produced by WotC, but no books that are more than half flavor.