Anyone else long for old days simplicity?

[Desdichado]

Well, as other people have pointed out, you also get funny stat combinations, and the NPC's usually have their skill points spread all over. I would basically have to change everything except the character's names to make them usuable. Who needs a fighter with two ranks in concentration, or something really weak like that. I want them to be min-maxed like PC's and only have optimum feat selections.

Who needs a fighter with concentration? Why not? I don't want min/maxed characters, I want interesting characters. I guess now I can see why you don't like the generators, while I think they're the best thing to come along in years (and a lot of publishers are also crediting them, although I wouldn't be so cheap as to throw that in to give dubious credibility to my point, now would I? )

 

[adndgamer]

Re: Re: Bring back simple DnD!

When working with a newbie, I don't make any of the character choices, but explain them all to the player and have them choose for themself. Still, the process only takes 5-15 minutes (depending on class) - I don't know why it taks you that long. If I helped four people generate characters, I'd do them all at once and finish in 20 minutes - or individually in 40 or so.

I've done this a fair deal...

Hm. Usually when we sit down before the first game people are all at different levels of character finalization. Do you rule with an iron first? Because my players won't shut up and sit nicely for me...

Usually I end up being torn every which way trying to help everybody out with different things. I might take to your example of sitting everybody down and going over everything with them all at the same time though.

But, as I said, the longest things are skill and feats. Because, after everybody finds out how many ranks they have to distribute, they all wanna know what they should take, and when you only have one PHB between 4 indecisive players, well.... it aint pretty. Players wanna read over all the skills, and all the feats, and see what they should take. blech.

 

[kenjib]

Not only do you have to choose which skills and feats you are going to take, but you need to plan out your entire career during character creation if you want to be able to fill prerequisites for PRCs, advanced feats, etc. later in a timely manner.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

Anyone who says creating characters in 3e is quick and painless for newbies needs to put the crack pipe down and slowly back away. 1e was, now if it's worth it is another thread.

 

[Orcus]

"The old D&D is simple only because you've had twenty years to get used to its cryptic quirks and crazy mechanics. D&D3E is actually light years simpler."

Not true at all. You have to know the mechanics for 3E. In OD&D you made it up: "ok, you want to break through the stone wall, lets see...roll a d6." There werent mechanics for things. It was presumed a DM could come up with a resolution system. I prefer that, actually.

Now you have to look up hardness and hp and all that other crap.

3E is more consistent. Dont confuse consistency with ease of use or simplicity.

I cant tell you how many things I resolved with the old d6 roll.

Clark

 

[Someguy]

Re: NPC Generator

Not too impressed with Mr Buck.

A trial run gave me a Wiz13 with 13 in Int. That might be forgiveable, except he had 15 Con.

SO?...the generator doesn't minmax?

He tries to be a wizard, but he isn't that good...but he is healthy...

 

[Zerovoid]

Who needs a fighter with concentration? Why not? I don't want min/maxed characters, I want interesting characters. I guess now I can see why you don't like the generators, while I think they're the best thing to come along in years (and a lot of publishers are also crediting them, although I wouldn't be so cheap as to throw that in to give dubious credibility to my point, now would I? )

You have a valid point, and I could see using those wierd skills as a quick way to get a start on the NPC's personalities. But really, I don't really care about a creature's stats unless the PC's are going to try to get a fight with that creature. Perception and social skill totals I can make up on the fly, and if the character is just a guy in a tavern that the PC's talk to for 5 min, then I won't make up stats, just a name and a couple sentences about what he has to say. I would like an easy way to get stats for guards and stuff quickly. Not that its too difficult for most classes, but it does take a little time to write up even a 5th level warrior, but if the PC's are going to fight a monster, I can just flip open the MM and I 'm all set.

 

[Holy Bovine]

Re: Re: Re: Bring back simple DnD!

when you only have one PHB between 4 indecisive players, well.... it aint pretty. Players wanna read over all the skills, and all the feats, and see what they should take. blech.

I think i know why it takes so long for you guys to create characters


BUY ANOTHER PHB, MAN!!!!!!

I would go nuts if I had to do that! Ugh!

I even bought a second PHB for my fiance so she would stop taking mine at inopportune moments - doesn't work she just ends up with BOTH of them

I can sympathize though - until you really get used to 3E it can be intimidating - after running my campaign for over a year now I feel I can pretty much handle anything that comes up with minimal book-checking (and I LOVE my Scarred Lands DMs Screen - 1000 times better than WotC's)

Was 1E easier? I really can't remember that far back, it quite likely was - but I don't really want to go back to that

Now the old Basic & Expert sets - I think it would be a kick to run a one-shot game with those but again I wouldn't run a full-fledged campaign with those rules.

 

[Geoffrey]

I love the old simplicity of OAD&D, and even more so of OD&D (the 1974-1976 rules). Skills, feats, kits, and what-have-you make everything a chore rather than a game. I don't want to spend a long time making a PC, and as a DM I don't want to have big stat blocks for my monsters and NPCs.

I don't like having a rule for everything. IMO, if it's not in the rules, the DM should make a judicious judgment of a proposed action's chance and roll the percentile dice. If a DM doesn't have enough common sense to do that, I wonder about his qualifications to be a DM. If a player won't abide by his DM's judgments, I wonder about the motives of that player. If a good player finds himself in a bad DM's game, no amount of rules is going to make that DM a good one; hence, he should find another DM.

 

[adndgamer]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Bring back simple DnD!

I think i know why it takes so long for you guys to create characters


BUY ANOTHER PHB, MAN!!!!!!

I would go nuts if I had to do that! Ugh!

heh I finally convinced 2 out of the 4 players to get PHBs of their own, so now it's a little bit better...