Anyone else long for old days simplicity?
- Thread starter Lord Vangarel
- Start date
Desdichado
Hero
Zerovoid:
What I would like Buck's generators to do is allow me to input racial and class information, so I can keep it up to date, or input custom classes or races. With that, it will do everything I need it to. Perhaps PCGen already does it: haven't seen that utility yet.
And how hard is it to change improved critical (great axe) to improved critical (short spear)? Really, folks, are you that lame that you can't make these kinds of tweaks?
What I would like Buck's generators to do is allow me to input racial and class information, so I can keep it up to date, or input custom classes or races. With that, it will do everything I need it to. Perhaps PCGen already does it: haven't seen that utility yet.
WSmith
First Post
Re: oops forgot 2nd thought.
I am in the procees, time permitting, which is very rare. I narrowed it down to Fighter, Rogue, Wizard, and Cleric. The races include Human, Halfling, Elf, and Dwarf. It covers from 1st level to 5th.
The only skills used are Balance, climb, concentration, diplomacy, Disable device, hide, jump, listen, move silently, open locks, pickpockets, ride, search, spellcraft, spot, swim, and tumble.
The feat list has been cropped. So has the spell lists, which even now I think is still too big for a beginner.
The weapons list has only slightly more than what is included in the AG box set.
I am adding flavor text so that newbies can understand the system, and make a character of their own that will in the future be transparant with the full PHB, yet limit some CharGen options so it doesn't appear daunting.
jfiz said:
I am in the procees, time permitting, which is very rare. I narrowed it down to Fighter, Rogue, Wizard, and Cleric. The races include Human, Halfling, Elf, and Dwarf. It covers from 1st level to 5th.
The only skills used are Balance, climb, concentration, diplomacy, Disable device, hide, jump, listen, move silently, open locks, pickpockets, ride, search, spellcraft, spot, swim, and tumble.
The feat list has been cropped. So has the spell lists, which even now I think is still too big for a beginner.
The weapons list has only slightly more than what is included in the AG box set.
I am adding flavor text so that newbies can understand the system, and make a character of their own that will in the future be transparant with the full PHB, yet limit some CharGen options so it doesn't appear daunting.
D20 light...
Ok, you are taking a *very* different approach.
What I would envision as a D20 light system would not include limiting levels, fewer classes/spells/skills/feats/races etc.
Instead, I'd be more interested in actually simplifying the game mechanics....i.e. change/remove AoO's, simply calculations for to-hit, AC, how hps and AC work etc...would focus on in game mechanics simplification.
As far as character creation, the only things I'd really consider would be to make it slightly easier to spend skill points and pick spells and feats, mainly just to speed up character creation. I wouldn't want to see this for "newbies" but rather for experienced gamers who just want a more mechanics light system based around d20 core concepts, with slightly faster character creation but with most of the options left in and high level play still available.
For what purpose, you might ask? Ok...for example, I am meeting with my normal playing group tonight, but our DM will not be present. We would like to spend the time by very quickly rolling up some high level characters and playing a 1 session adventure involving a high level, well established enemy...maybe a stomp the dragon or save the world at the last minute from the evil cult mastermind at the core of the plot type of thing.
We'd like to keep it DnD/d20-ish, but we can't afford the extra time it takes to make up characters, and especially figure out AoO's or complex combat rules or other mechanics so we'd like a much FASTER version of d20 to support high level 1-shots like this...
Any ideas?
Thanks,
Ok, you are taking a *very* different approach.
What I would envision as a D20 light system would not include limiting levels, fewer classes/spells/skills/feats/races etc.
Instead, I'd be more interested in actually simplifying the game mechanics....i.e. change/remove AoO's, simply calculations for to-hit, AC, how hps and AC work etc...would focus on in game mechanics simplification.
As far as character creation, the only things I'd really consider would be to make it slightly easier to spend skill points and pick spells and feats, mainly just to speed up character creation. I wouldn't want to see this for "newbies" but rather for experienced gamers who just want a more mechanics light system based around d20 core concepts, with slightly faster character creation but with most of the options left in and high level play still available.
For what purpose, you might ask? Ok...for example, I am meeting with my normal playing group tonight, but our DM will not be present. We would like to spend the time by very quickly rolling up some high level characters and playing a 1 session adventure involving a high level, well established enemy...maybe a stomp the dragon or save the world at the last minute from the evil cult mastermind at the core of the plot type of thing.
We'd like to keep it DnD/d20-ish, but we can't afford the extra time it takes to make up characters, and especially figure out AoO's or complex combat rules or other mechanics so we'd like a much FASTER version of d20 to support high level 1-shots like this...
Any ideas?
Thanks,
WSmith
First Post
The reason I took that apporach was, even though I would much prefer to assign feat, skills, and spells much like the AG box set does, I had hope to make it d20 STL compliant, and only WOTC or someone with a special lisc. is able to make a "lite" version where changing the rules involves altering the "pick a race, class, apply experience" clause of the STL.
Of course for a home campaign, not to be printed or published, I have notes somewhere where I built on the AG doing such where, at 2nd level fighter get power attack, and wizards get Xspells. There is no picking feats or skills. Is this what you envisioned?
Of course for a home campaign, not to be printed or published, I have notes somewhere where I built on the AG doing such where, at 2nd level fighter get power attack, and wizards get Xspells. There is no picking feats or skills. Is this what you envisioned?
CRGreathouse
Community Supporter
Do I long for the simplicity of the old days? Certainly not! I love the system how it is now. If I want a quick NPC, I use Jamis Buck's generator; if I want more detail, I use my generator, and I I want even more, I open a blank Word document and type up a stat block (usually, nbut not always, with the PH open). It's really not that hard...
adndgamer
First Post
Bring back simple DnD!
I for one, would like to be able to get 4 newbie players' characters generated in less than 45 minutes, WITHOUT computer aid. This is not easily done with 3e. Older additions of DnD allowed this. I think that the biggest flaw in 3e is the skills list, and the complexity of it. Skills, along with feats, have always taken the longest to fill out in my games.
Anyways, yes, I long for the days of simple DnD. 3e is overheavy with rules, overstepping, IMO, bounds where the DM should have the control. In previous versions of DnD, the DM had more control, and thus allowed for more simplicity in play. Some people will argue that they had crappy DMs and so that more control to them was a bad thing. Well, that's not the system's fault, but the DM's fault.
But hey, to each his own.
I for one, would like to be able to get 4 newbie players' characters generated in less than 45 minutes, WITHOUT computer aid. This is not easily done with 3e. Older additions of DnD allowed this. I think that the biggest flaw in 3e is the skills list, and the complexity of it. Skills, along with feats, have always taken the longest to fill out in my games.
Anyways, yes, I long for the days of simple DnD. 3e is overheavy with rules, overstepping, IMO, bounds where the DM should have the control. In previous versions of DnD, the DM had more control, and thus allowed for more simplicity in play. Some people will argue that they had crappy DMs and so that more control to them was a bad thing. Well, that's not the system's fault, but the DM's fault.
But hey, to each his own.
Barendd Nobeard
Explorer
Re: NPC Generator
It would be nice if you could order stats (just a list to say, 'put best in this ability, 2nd best in that ability,' etc. Or even a "powergamer" check box to put the highest stats in the class's main attribute.
But, I also think that strange results are part of the charm. Not every (N)PC has the scores that are best for their class.
I just used the program to generate some monster multi-class monks. One turned out to be a Kuo-Toa Monk12/Clr3 with a Charisma of 2. Even with Skill points, she has Bluff -3.5 and Disguise -2. At first I was dismayed.
But then, I thought, I would love to role play this character! I would love to see this character try to sneak into a human town.
Definitely, some future features will make the generators even more useful. But sometimes it's fun to play an "Eddie the Eagle" type.
SableWyvern said:
It would be nice if you could order stats (just a list to say, 'put best in this ability, 2nd best in that ability,' etc. Or even a "powergamer" check box to put the highest stats in the class's main attribute.
But, I also think that strange results are part of the charm. Not every (N)PC has the scores that are best for their class.
I just used the program to generate some monster multi-class monks. One turned out to be a Kuo-Toa Monk12/Clr3 with a Charisma of 2. Even with Skill points, she has Bluff -3.5 and Disguise -2. At first I was dismayed.
But then, I thought, I would love to role play this character! I would love to see this character try to sneak into a human town.
Definitely, some future features will make the generators even more useful. But sometimes it's fun to play an "Eddie the Eagle" type.
Zerovoid
First Post
Joshua Dyal said:
Well, as other people have pointed out, you also get funny stat combinations, and the NPC's usually have their skill points spread all over. I would basically have to change everything except the character's names to make them usuable. Who needs a fighter with two ranks in concentration, or something really weak like that. I want them to be min-maxed like PC's and only have optimum feat selections.
CRGreathouse
Community Supporter
Re: Bring back simple DnD!
When working with a newbie, I don't make any of the character choices, but explain them all to the player and have them choose for themself. Still, the process only takes 5-15 minutes (depending on class) - I don't know why it taks you that long. If I helped four people generate characters, I'd do them all at once and finish in 20 minutes - or individually in 40 or so.
I've done this a fair deal...
adndgamer said:
When working with a newbie, I don't make any of the character choices, but explain them all to the player and have them choose for themself. Still, the process only takes 5-15 minutes (depending on class) - I don't know why it taks you that long. If I helped four people generate characters, I'd do them all at once and finish in 20 minutes - or individually in 40 or so.
I've done this a fair deal...
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