Anyone have house rules for multi-classing?

[Gez]

Every class has a Magic Power progression (either 1/2, 1/3, or full; nonspellcasting and minor spellcasting classes uses half progression, bards, psychic warriors and the like use 1/3 progression, and those with 9th level spells use full progression).

And, of course, I use fractional progression.

Finally, one skill point=one skill rank. However, cross-class skills are still restricted to half the max rank of a class skill. It eases the creation of multiclassed NPCs.

 

[Inconsequenti-AL]

My house rules: No XP penalties for multiclassing. Taking levels in a favoured class nets you +1 skill point per level. 'Favoured class: Any' means the class with the most levels in it.


To recreate the 1st/2nd ed multiclass feel, you could play a gestalt class - taking the best of both classes as usual - however, they take a ~25% xp penalty. Fine as long as they don't decide to multiclass out of that combination or use spells and abilities with XP costs.

Personally, I like the combination prestige classes - Eldritch knight, arcane trickster and so on.

 

[dvvega]

OK. I've got a character from 1E who was really happy being a Fighter/Magic-User/Thief. He got to levels 4/4/5. 1) How would the conversion work? 2) From there, how would he then progress? 3) Don't ask me to ask my DM......I don't currently have one! 4) Yes, I'm aware the terminology now is Fighter/Wizard/Rogue.

This one is easy to answer, in fact it was described in the original booklet put out for 3.0 regarding converting your 1st/2nd edition characters to 3rd edition. I don't have them directly at hand but I think a three class triple class added all levels together and added 2. Then you take those levels and split them up as you see fit. In your case it is 13 levels for a character, so you can then create a Fighter/Wizard/Rogue without a problem using those levels. Transfer your proficiencies to skills and so forth and VOILA!

From there you just progress as a normal character ... abiding by the old 1E rate of progression if you wish so you would go Rogue/Fighter/Wizard in that case.

have another character who did this almost as a career. He had levels in Cavalier, Illusionist, Fighter, and Thief

I would never have allowed this blatant powergaming in my campaign. The Cavalier allowed anyone to get 18 in physical statistics (you would have required the 18 intelligence naturally) to dual class so many times. However I seem to remember you could only dual-class once as a human not multiple times. I would have to read my old books to confirm this one.

True. Is there a compromise ruling, though? Somewhere in between the two?

If you were in my campaign and you really wanted to dual class as a human, I would put the following rules onto you (it's sort of a compromise in an attempt to keep the power equal).

-- qualifying

1) your initial class must have an 16 in the primary attribute associated with it (str for fighter, wisdom for cleric).
2) you must have 14+ for the second attribute (wisdom for Rangers and Paladins)
3) you must have 18s in the primary ability for the second class
4) you must have 16+ in the secondary abilitie for the second class
5) if you want to add further classes, add +2 to the ability requirements

-- leveling up

0) you may never achieve epic levels, and thus never qualify for epic feats and so forth
1) as you advance in your second class you may not use any of the previous class abilities or you forfeit all XP until you bypass the class level
2) once you have bypassed the previous level then you may freely mix the skills.

-- options (for 3.5 edition)

0) every time you "bank" XP equivalent to gaining a level+1 in your previous class you may gain it's abilities (thus a Fighter 10/Rogue 1 would require 1000XP to attain Rogue 2, and a further 1000 XP to use Fighter 1 skills.
1) at any time you may elect to "go epic" if you qualify. The penalty for this is that you lose all levels above a combined level of 20th and must earn level 21 from scratch. You immediately become a normal character at this time.

These are just random thoughts from me while watching late night TV. I think the "banking" option would balance out the lack of ability for the character while ensuring the experience "savings" are minimised.

The lack of epicness would indeed cause problems for such a character in epic play but you'd have to playtest it I guess.

 

[Sledge]

This one is easy to answer, in fact it was described in the original booklet put out for 3.0 regarding converting your 1st/2nd edition characters to 3rd edition. I don't have them directly at hand but I think a three class triple class added all levels together and added 2.

Actually the multiclass conversion rules are crippling. You take the highest level (5) and add a third of the remaining levels (8/3=2.66) There are options for tweaking XP, but even with a generous DM you are only going to get that last third of a level. Total of 8 levels for what was 5/4/4 obviously the character will lose most of its abilities with this conversion. Rather lame that a multiclass caster suddenly only knows half the spells it used to. A little better would be to keep at least half the secondary class levels. Even then you only have 9 levels.

 

[Hawken]

Yes, I should have been more clear. OK, the concept behind being one class for 9 or 10 or 11 levels and then adding a 2nd class which would then cost around 10,000 exp. just to achieve 1st level in said class disgusts me. It's a big 'ole jip!

If this quote thing doesn't come out right, could someone tell me how to insert quotes into these posts?

To the point:
Having to spend 10K XP or so to gain a 1st level in a class is understandable, if you are already 9th or 10th level. At that point, from a roleplaying perspective, your character is already accomplished in what he has been doing. It would take a lot of extra effort and training to 'unlearn' what he has already learned and start doing things a new way. If a 10th Fighter wanted to take his 11th level in Rogue (becoming Fighter10/Rogue1), he would be taking time to learn to fight not as a fighter but as a rogue; he would be learning skills that require a finesse that has been largely ignored up to this point in his life and having to do it in armor he has not worn since the beginning of his career (how many single class fighters willingly wear leather or studded leather beyond 2nd or 3rd level?). Teaching him to sneak when he is used to crushing, be silent when he is used to making noise and intimidating, teach him to aim for precise targets (sneak attacks) when he is used to just hacking until it stops moving. All those things and more would require more time and effort from the fighter than just picking up 1K XP.

For multiclassing, some kind of training should be involved at the least. The fighter in the above example, could quickly gain 1K XP from fighting, but that wouldn't make him a better rogue. That wouldn't teach him to sneak, bluff or disarm traps. The XP cost, I believe, is intended to reflect the amount and length of training involved in learning an entirely new set of skills and operating under a different set of rules. Even 10K XP spent hacking up monsters isn't an accurate reflection of training involved in becoming a rogue (or any other class).

I am starting a new campaign soon and in it I have removed entirely the concept of Favored Classes, and made multiclassing something that doesn't just come from some XP that you earn. The characters in my game will have to take a feat to start learning another class. And if they wish to continue advancing in their old class they will have to pay the 20% penalty which reflects maintaining their original level of skill and continuing to train in their old class while learning and advancing in the new class.

 

[Angel Tarragon]

In Unearthed Araca there is a Side bar on page 100 about adding a favored class:

The experience point penalty associated with multiclassing can make some otherwise interesting character archetypes less viable without having the proper combination of race and class(es). In my campaign, I allow characters to select a feat that adds another favored class to their race. This allows a player to better create a unique character while not unduly undercutting the multiclass advantage possesed by humans and half-elves.

New Feat:

Additional Favored Class [General]
You are more adept at combining different talents than most members of your race.
Benefit: Choose a character class, such as ranger. The chosen class is treated as a favored class for the purposeof determining whether your character takes an experience poin penalty for multiclassing.
Normal: Without this feat, if any class other than your races favored class is two or more levels lower than your highest-level class, you take a -20% penalty to XP earned for each class that is not within one level of your highest level class.
Special: You can gain this feat multiple times. Each time you take the feat, it applies to a new class.

 

[ARandomGod]

Actually, you'll find that if you really sit down and add up the class levels you'll find that the current incarnation of multiclassing makes a pretty impressive character... as long as you don't multiclass with any spellcasting.

I know where you're coming from, because I absolutely hated it too. On the other hand, I've seen systems where they attempted to make multiclassing cheaper but still use the same rules (adding BAB and saves), and that made for overwhelmingly overpowered characters. Which is obvious if you sit down with a pen and paper (on cut and paste on a computer) and draw out some multiclass characters.

Adding spellcaster, however, greatly cripples you.

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

Unearthed Arcana has some rules for "magic ratings," which are designed to take the hard edge off of multiclassing as a spellcaster. Each class has a score that increases by level, and you add the score to the caster level to determine what the effective caster level of the character is. A fighter/wizard adds the magic rating for a fighter of that level to the wizard caster level, increasing the power of the wizard's spells somewhat.

While not a perfect fix, it's a way of blurring the hard borders between spellcaster and non-spellcaster when multiclassing.

 

[Grail Quest]

Yes, I should have been more clear. OK, the concept behind being one class for 9 or 10 or 11 levels and then adding a 2nd class which would then cost around 10,000 exp. just to achieve 1st level in said class disgusts me. It's a big 'ole jip!

Depends on how you look at it.
Try this perspective: 1 level ~= +2 feats worth of abilities. If you break down the Fighter class, this is approximately the result per level, factoring in non-class specific level bonuses such as open feats and ability score increases.

To exchange 1 level to get 1st-level in a totally different class, and thus gain lots of new feats and abilities, can be a great deal at any level instead of continuing to specialize in one class (especially when compared to getting yet another fighter level with no martial feat).
What you are doing is going for breadth instead of depth. The extent to which your chosen classes have synergy is the payoff (or drawback, if the classes are too much the same or they have no synergy or are conflicting--such as armor-heavy Fighter and armor-averse Wizard).

I mean, I can see how the system discourages a player from having levels in, like, 14 different classes, but who does that, really?

Maybe not as many as 14, but guys like Elminster, for example... how many classes does he have?
What really discourages people from multiclassing extensively--and thus limiting their imaginations, IMO--is the complexities involved in multi-classing. From level to level, and especially if you alternate gaining levels in various classes, you suddenly have less or more skill points, you have to figure out where your saving throws left off the last time you gained a level in the particular class, you have to count your spell levels, blah blah blah...

[Aside...]
Personally, I recommend going Classless. That's my house rule for "multiclassing".
Classes are a clumsy tool and a very poor interface to begin with. They are notoriously hard to balance. And because it seems that everyone is reaching for a Prestige Class, the concept of basic classes or core classes is illusory.

Further, to access Prestige Classes, which are a way of custom-designing a specific character build, normally requires going through core classes--forcing you to delay your character concept and forcing you to take possibly unrelated feats and abilities not in your character concept.
You could sidestep it, but do you see what's happened already? -- we are putting a band aid on a lousy ruleset. Why not just dump the ruleset to begin with?

I believe the next step in D20 is to go classless. And to ally publisher fears, this will not necessarily reduce revenue gained by churning out a multitude of Prestige Classes.
The existing classes simply become lists of feats and abilities to gain in order to be counted as having completed the basics of a class (similar to Warhammer Fantasy). Taking feats beyond the basics allow you to progress toward epic status within a class, and thus gain epic feats belonging to the class.

Simultaneous with this should be a formal recognition that not all campaigns are alike. Some are more realistic, others more heroic. The more heroic ones need to have PCs advance faster.
And we do this instead of diluting certain classes, then fretting when classes aren't balanced with each other.

Check out my classless system, done in tandem with a "PC Caliber" rating system, at http://www.freewebs.com/d20elements
It's my set of house rules, free to download and try out in your campaign.