Anyone still confused on Improved Grab and Constrict?

[frankthedm]

Pretty damn sure this is how it goes...

http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/6246/awfulclawfulep0.png

Only change the RC made was that Improved Grab and constrict now specificly replace 'unarmed strike damage' in the "Damage opponent" option. Previously the wording seemed to indicate those were added to all grapple options as bonus damage if the grapple check just succeeded.

 

[Vegepygmy]

The scorpion would be able to move if it has a move action remaining only if it took the -20 penalty to its grapple check to hold the fighter in its claw, I think. Otherwise it is grappling and can only move (at half speed) by using a standard action and winning an opposed grapple check, right? RC doesn't seem to have changed that.

 

[frankthedm]

The scorpion would be able to move if it has a move action remaining only if it took the -20 penalty to its grapple check to hold the fighter in its claw, I think.

No, that is one more thing about improved grab that makes it awsome. Unless the Character is so heavy the B.ig H.ungry M.onster can't DRAG the PC, the BHM can make off with it's prey.

Improved Grab
If a creature with this special attack hits with a melee weapon (usually a claw or bite attack), it deals normal damage and attempts to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. No initial touch attack is required.

Unless otherwise noted, improved grab works only against opponents at least one size category smaller than the creature. The creature has the option to conduct the grapple normally, or simply use the part of its body it used in the improved grab to hold the opponent. If it chooses to do the latter, it takes a -20 penalty on grapple checks, but is not considered grappled itself; the creature does not lose its Dexterity bonus to AC, still threatens an area, and can use its remaining attacks against other opponents.

A successful hold does not deal any extra damage unless the creature also has the constrict special attack. If the creature does not constrict, each successful grapple check it makes during successive rounds automatically deals the damage indicated for the attack that established the hold. Otherwise, it deals constriction damage as well (the amount is given in the creature’s descriptive text).

When a creature gets a hold after an improved grab attack, it pulls the opponent into its space. This act does not provoke attacks of opportunity. It can even move (possibly carrying away the opponent), provided it can drag the opponent’s weight.

 

[blargney the second]

Voted 'understand' and 'hate'. When I'm DMing, I exchange Improved Grab for something else all the time.

 

[Shin Okada]

I vote "Understand" and "Hate". But nut just Improved Grab and Constrict, but I hate almost all the special attacks involving that silly Special Size Modifier. That largely ruined otherwise well-balanced combat rules. And it discouraged to play small races.

 

[Jhulae]

No, that is one more thing about improved grab that makes it awsome. Unless the Character is so heavy the B.ig H.ungry M.onster can't DRAG the PC, the BHM can make off with it's prey.

Yeah, but depending on the weight, it might be 'dragging' it's prey off at only 5' a round.

 

[Infiniti2000]

I like it, understand it, and I've added two houserules to it. Since you have that as an option, I feel justified in sharing them here:

1. Anyone can take -20 on their initiated grapple check to hold a creature "a bay." Once grappling without this option, however, a creature cannot choose to use it later (unless the grapple is broken and reengaged). I like this as an option and saw no reason to limit it to select few monsters. As DM, I'm careful about how I use it so as not to abuse it. Quite frankly, it has come up only twice or so that I recall.
2. A creature with improved grab can grab someone (not just attack) during an AoO. Normally, it takes a free action, but I've houseruled it to be a free action that can be taken outside its turn. This is obviously stronger, but I like the flavor and I am able to balance the encounter well with it in mind.

 

[Vegepygmy]

It can even move (possibly carrying away the opponent), provided it can drag the opponent’s weight.

I have to admit, I never noticed that line in the MM entry before.

But this raises an interesting question, because I don't see that line in the RC entry. Doesn't that mean it is no longer the rule?

 

[Jhaelen]

Well, I voted 'understand' and 'like', however:
In theory I understand the rules perfectly well; in the heat of the action though, I typically make a wrong ruling at one point or another. I don't think I've ever had a single combat involving grappling where I did not make a mistake at _some_ point.

I also like these abilities in theory. What I don't like is that the monsters that typically have these abilities have extremely high grapple bonuses. It's way too difficult for pcs to avoid these attacks with a good chance of success, which makes those monsters a lot tougher than they should be for their CR. The system is simply not well balanced.

Finally, I'd like to add that I like the grapple rules _only_ if the monster has improved grab. Without that ability grappling doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

 

[Bagpuss]

Grapple is a sure fire way to waste actions against my group, or worse get yourself killed.

Thanks to Benign Transposition.

We have a cleric with the Travel Domain, so if anyone gets grappled they Benign Transposition the cleric with the grappled character and his Freedom of Movement ability kicks in and he gets free.

Or alternatively the Benign Transposition with the party Rogue, who since you are denied your Dexterity bonus to AC, sneak attacks you to death on his action. He doesn't even need a light melee weapon to hand, since as you don't threaten you can't AoO him when he pokes you to death with his little figure (unarmed attack) with all it's bonus sneak attack damage.