Anything But Normal, Sailing the Endless Falls

[Rystil Arden]

I think I underestimated the (entirely understandable) knee-jerk reaction D&D players develop to that annoying guy who tries to be all cool and lonersome. In retrospect I should've made it clear that I'm aware of the problem and would like a little help making it thematic without having to really give it the hard sell.

I think you're right, and that's a good idea--of course Hindsight is 20/20, but we still have time before it starts, so let's make something that works

 

[Rystil Arden]

Looks much better, except that you imply that Nissa patronizes Lupaz about the predominating theme of his life and character. That makes both of us cranky, although Lupaz probably couldn't tell unless he gets paranoid and starts cursing you before our conversations.

Heh, that's not a bad idea. Surreptitiously whack party member with a -13 on Sense Motive and Bluff once or twice just to be sure they're being honest with you, like a superpowerful magical truth serum. Eh, that's probably too close to PvP to actually do, though it probably fits in with the character.

I specifically stated that she absolutely does not patronise him about it, adding that clause because I realised it might seem like she was Basically, she doesn't treat him like a lesser who needs to be coddled, but I tried to explain (obviously poorly ) that what she does instead is use an alternate debating tactic--instead of treating Lupaz as the opponent in a debate to be defeated, in which case she must either use overwhelming tactics (combination of the higher Int and the Diplomacy) or hold back, she treats him as a comrade and ally in a discussion whose purpose is to help both of them understand more--in that sense, Nissa sees herself as the embodiment of a specific principle in a discussion, so she has no need to win or lose the debate, as in the end, everyone wins. She'll do things like try to argue devil's advocate to see what happens, take an extreme argument and see where it leads, etc

 

[Kelleris]

I don't think religion is the only Knowledge skill that covers Philosophy. In fact, I would put it under Arcane at least as easily if it isn't religious philosophy. 7 Int is a big difference, though. It's the difference between average (Int 11) and genius (Int 18) or even between Lupaz's Int (14) and someone who is mildly retarded (7).

However, I do agree that I can't properly RP 21 Int, which is why I added the holding back thing to help a bit, and since you actually know a lot about philosophy, that actually makes it more of the reverse in real life--you'll be holding back to not make it look weird in the opposite direction where Lupaz leaves Nissa looking like a blithering idiot

I've always followed the division done in D20 Modern and its variants where Knowledge (theology and philosophy) replaces Knowledge (religion) and Knowledge (arcana) stays as its own thing. If I had enough skill points I'd actually take ranks in Knowledge (religion) for character purposes, but I can't really affored to waste them (2 + on your critical first HD makes things ugly). So I just kinda assume that Lupaz has a half-dozen phantom ranks in Knowledge (religion) for the purpose of roleplaying discussions about his area of obsessive interest. I mean, manipulating fate and prophecy is his entire role in life, and his obsession is "fixing" his own fate. It stands to reason he could hold his own in conversation on these matters with just about anyone not actually known as a sage in this respect.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Heh, that's not a bad idea. Surreptitiously whack party member with a -13 on Sense Motive and Bluff once or twice just to be sure they're being honest with you, like a superpowerful magical truth serum. Eh, that's probably too close to PvP to actually do, though it probably fits in with the character.

If we ever make a save, we know you did it, though Plus I forget, is it a SLA? If so, it provoke as AoO and is thus noticable at least.

 

[Kelleris]

I specifically stated that she absolutely does not patronise him about it, adding that clause because I realised it might seem like she was Basically, she doesn't treat him like a lesser who needs to be coddled, but I tried to explain (obviously poorly ) that what she does instead is use an alternate debating tactic--instead of treating Lupaz as the opponent in a debate to be defeated, in which case she must either use overwhelming tactics (combination of the higher Int and the Diplomacy) or hold back, she treats him as a comrade and ally in a discussion whose purpose is to help both of them understand more--in that sense, Nissa sees herself as the embodiment of a specific principle in a discussion, so she has no need to win or lose the debate, as in the end, everyone wins. She'll do things like try to argue devil's advocate to see what happens, take an extreme argument and see where it leads, etc

That's okay then, just wanted to make sure you weren't treating my character's overriding RP theme lightly.

 

[Kelleris]

If we ever make a save, we know you did it, though Plus I forget, is it a SLA? If so, it provoke as AoO and is thus noticable at least.

It's a free action supernatural ability. So it's basically undetectable even if you do make a save, and Spellcraft doesn't identify its source. If I were doing this (I'm not, but if I were), I'd pick an opportune moment to make the attempt. Besides, I expect we'll all be feeling "an unknown hostile force" with irritating frequency in the days to come.

 

[Rystil Arden]

I've always followed the division done in D20 Modern and its variants where Knowledge (theology and philosophy) replaces Knowledge (religion) and Knowledge (arcana) stays as its own thing. If I had enough skill points I'd actually take ranks in Knowledge (religion) for character purposes, but I can't really affored to waste them (2 + on your critical first HD makes things ugly). So I just kinda assume that Lupaz has a half-dozen phantom ranks in Knowledge (religion) for the purpose of roleplaying discussions about his area of obsessive interest. I mean, manipulating fate and prophecy is his entire role in life, and his obsession is "fixing" his own fate. It stands to reason he could hold his own in conversation on these matters with just about anyone not actually known as a sage in this respect.

Do remember that Nissa was locked alone and tortured for a decade to learn about exactly those topics and become a great prophetess (after spending a bit longer trying to learn about it in a non-torture environment--totalling up to about equal to Lupaz's age in total), taught by a manifestation of Fate and drilled on how it was superior (I figured this would fall under Knowledge: Arcana and be related to her knowledge of divination, though I can see how it can fall under religion as well, but I do think it should be both--great wizard sages think on the metaphysical nature of the world just as deeply as the priests). So admittedly, while she is by no means a master, she isn't just some smart girl off the street who doesn't know about this stuff.

 

[Rystil Arden]

It's a free action supernatural ability. So it's basically undetectable even if you do make a save, and Spellcraft doesn't identify its source.

Heh, that is undetectable then, but you still know that you made a Will save (although not the source, admittedly)

 

[Kelleris]

Do remember that Nissa was locked alone and tortured for a decade to learn about exactly those topics and become a great prophetess (after spending a bit longer trying to learn about it in a non-torture environment--totalling up to about equal to Lupaz's age in total), taught by a manifestation of Fate and drilled on how it was superior (I figured this would fall under Knowledge: Arcana and be related to her knowledge of divination, though I can see how it can fall under religion as well, but I do think it should be both--great wizard sages think on the metaphysical nature of the world just as deeply as the priests). So admittedly, while she is by no means a master, she isn't just some smart girl off the street who doesn't know about this stuff.

Like I said, we take/took the skills to mean different things. I took your training to cover the technical aspects of divination (since you're horrible at them, remember) and took the lack of Knowledge (religion) to mean Ananke kept the metaphysics to herself.

 

[Kelleris]

And as long as we're playing oneupmanship, I'd like to point out that I've served the weirds obsessively for a decade precisely so I can plumb the very depths of their knowledge on matters of fate and destiny. My council of weirds beats your one time elemental.