Anything wrong with just playing D&D?

[La Bete]

I think that playing other games on occasion is a great thing for a DM to do. It keeps the mind open to new possibilities, and forces you to think a little outside the boundaries of your usual game, which can lead to greater creativity within the game you prefer.

Theres been a lot of interesting points in this thread, but this is the key one. For a lot of people, playing another game system can really get the creative juices flowing. For our gaming group, two extended campaigns of Vampire and Werewolf reinvigorated our gaming.

That said, since the D&D rules are so good and internally consistent, our patience for poorly-thought out games systems is very low!

 

[MerakSpielman]

I think my group would be much more likely to try another d20 game than a different system. The reason? Some of them are slow to grasp rule sets. They can't just read the book, make a character, and play the game. They'll constantly be trying to use the rules they've learned by heart from their previous system. We have players who still try to use 2nd edition facing rules, since that's what they spend years memorizing. Old habits die hard. In another thread we're talking about whether it's reasonable to hand out extensive backstories to your players and expect them to know the matierial therein when they play. If I can't reasonably expect them to read loads of backstory, I certainly can't expect them to read an entire new game book and remember the rules it presents.

It would probably take us months of weekly playing to really feel comfortable playing a new system.

 

[Henry]

OD&D(1974) is the only true game....yadda, yadda, yadda you know the drill.

Believe it or not, I think this is the funniest quote I've heard all day.

 

[Henry]

Whatever the analogy, the general principle is fairly solid. You can be happy sticking with just one thing, no question. If, however, you want to improve over time, one of the best and fastest ways to do it is to broaden your horizons.

Umbran raises a good point here, but so does Erithtotl.

Umbran has the point I've always agreed with in that, the mark of a truly creative mind will not limit itself to a single genre. Some of the best writers we have on these boards read classic literature, fairy tales, modern lit, watch both high-concept and grade-B movies, and the myriad of sources they pull from shows up in their writings. To paraphrase a statement I saw on the internet a few years ago, if you want to be a better DM, go camping and horseriding.

On the other hand, 99% of us are not writing the Great Western novel of our time; we're prepping the next game in between working and feeding the kids. There's nothing wrong at all with sticking with what you know, especially if all you're looking for is fun with friends.

If OTOH you were wanting to write gaming material professionally, I'd probably suggest another path. Authors to-be are told, "don't read only what you like." Same goes for someone who wants to go pro game designer.

Then you have people like me, who sponge off minds like Jonrog1, Piratecat, Wulf Ratbane, Sepulchrave, and steal liberally from their work for my weekly game. I take their hard work, their DM Creativity, their well-read pedigrees of knowledge, and rip off the choice pieces for my games. That's the true beauty of ENWorld.

 

[Kichwas]

Anything wrong with only ever eating steak and cabbage?

You certainly won't make the best food critic.

 

[billd91]

I think my group would be much more likely to try another d20 game than a different system. The reason? Some of them are slow to grasp rule sets. They can't just read the book, make a character, and play the game. They'll constantly be trying to use the rules they've learned by heart from their previous system. We have players who still try to use 2nd edition facing rules, since that's what they spend years memorizing. Old habits die hard. In another thread we're talking about whether it's reasonable to hand out extensive backstories to your players and expect them to know the matierial therein when they play. If I can't reasonably expect them to read loads of backstory, I certainly can't expect them to read an entire new game book and remember the rules it presents.

It would probably take us months of weekly playing to really feel comfortable playing a new system.

I think the people I game with tend to be the opposites of that. We relatively willingly dive into other game systems for RPGs and board games without a second thought. We have favorites, sure, but we also experiment a lot.
I think some of us had very diverse school and college experiences with exposure to lots of different games. I wouldn't trade my exposure to other games like Paranoia, Traveller, Star Trek, Champions, Villains and Vigilantes, GURPS, Call of Cthulhu, Vampire, Talislanta, Advanced Squad Leader, Advanced Civilization, Formula De, Feng Shui, Mutants and Masterminds, and so on and so on for anything.
Many different games, lots of fun.

 

[Numion]

D20 Traveller is cool, d20 Call of Cthulhu? Why bother?

My mind boggles when people use d20 Cthulhu as an example of needless d20-fication .. because thats the one case when it surpasses the original source in execution. Anti-d20 crowd (not saying that you were one, CleverName) should've picked a better champion for their cause, because d20 Cthulhu is prime material for the other side, IMHO.

It's also a nice exercise in game design - the feel of the 'bare' d20 system is flipped around elegantly with only a couple of changes. They've even managed to retain a few nods to the BRP system. Plus d20 Cthulhu has been very popular, making it a thoroughly succesful d20 conversion.

As to your direct question 'why bother', isn't that rather obvious? Cthulhu d20 breathed new life to the whole game, bringing in new players to Cthulhu AND making money for the publishers. If that's not worth bothering, what is?

 

[Gothmog]

My mind boggles when people use d20 Cthulhu as an example of needless d20-fication .. because thats the one case when it surpasses the original source in execution. Anti-d20 crowd (not saying that you were one, CleverName) should've picked a better champion for their cause, because d20 Cthulhu is prime material for the other side, IMHO.

It's also a nice exercise in game design - the feel of the 'bare' d20 system is flipped around elegantly with only a couple of changes. They've even managed to retain a few nods to the BRP system. Plus d20 Cthulhu has been very popular, making it a thoroughly succesful d20 conversion.

As to your direct question 'why bother', isn't that rather obvious? Cthulhu d20 breathed new life to the whole game, bringing in new players to Cthulhu AND making money for the publishers. If that's not worth bothering, what is?

Well, I can't speak for everyone, but the reason I'm not crazy about d20 Cthulhu is because it is conducive to a style of play that I don't find fits well in a CoC game. The d20 version has much more of a pulp feel to it- more like Inidiana Jones vs. Cthulhu. In that atmosphere, the characters are abnormally tough compared to the CoC beasties, and I have routinely seen the group engage ghouls and deep ones in melee combat! This is due to the escalating hit point mechanic of the d20 system (which is partially alleviated by the 10 point DC 15 Fort save rule, but tough/high-level characters don't need to worry about this). While the bigger critters are still more than most characters could handle, the d20 version encourages combat much more than the BRP version does. Its basically CoC meets D&D, and thats not a feel I want in my CoC game.

The other aspect I'm not crazy about is that a character in d20 CoC cannot start as competent, much less an expert in his chosen field. At best, a CoC archaeology professor with the right feats and high stats might start with a +7 to +10 in his chosen speciality, compared to a 70-80% in Archaeology in BRP for an archaelolgy professor. In addition, it becomes more difficult to advance skills in BRP as the character gets better at them, while the d20 character has quick linear advancement. Thats a big difference. BRP also encourages characters to practice the skills they want to use, rather than accumulate XP to boost ALL their skills.

So, while d20 CoC would be good for a pulp-era Cthulhu game with a more cinematic feel, its horrid for the pervasive cosmic horror atmosphere Lovecraft tried to convey in his stories that mankind is insignificant. And yes, I have played both BRP (years) and d20 CoC (12 sessions), so I feel I have a basis to make the arguement. I'm not saying d20 CoC is bad, because its clearly not, but its not very true to the atmoshpere and feel of the setting. Overall, d20 CoC has been good for the CoC fanbase, no arguement there- the more people interested in CoC, the longer the line is supported.

 

[Numion]

Well, I can't speak for everyone, but the reason I'm not crazy about d20 Cthulhu is because it is conducive to a style of play that I don't find fits well in a CoC game. The d20 version has much more of a pulp feel to it- more like Inidiana Jones vs. Cthulhu. In that atmosphere, the characters are abnormally tough compared to the CoC beasties, and I have routinely seen the group engage ghouls and deep ones in melee combat! This is due to the escalating hit point mechanic of the d20 system (which is partially alleviated by the 10 point DC 15 Fort save rule, but tough/high-level characters don't need to worry about this). While the bigger critters are still more than most characters could handle, the d20 version encourages combat much more than the BRP version does. Its basically CoC meets D&D, and thats not a feel I want in my CoC game.

D&D meets cthulhu is one way to play it, I guess. Escalating power levels will allow that. If one wished to play a more gritty game, that is possible too. A starting character is actually more fragile in d20 than BRP Cthulhu. There's really no imperative for the game to go into levels 6+ where it will become more pulpy than the standard Cthulhu.

So, while d20 CoC would be good for a pulp-era Cthulhu game with a more cinematic feel, its horrid for the pervasive cosmic horror atmosphere Lovecraft tried to convey in his stories that mankind is insignificant. And yes, I have played both BRP (years) and d20 CoC (12 sessions), so I feel I have a basis to make the arguement.

Weren't some of the official BRP 'adventures' like that in themselves? I've heard that Masks of Nyarlathotep was pretty action oriented and Indiana Jonesy in feel? (some have said it was almost D&Dish: dungeons and stuff). I think that both systems can be used for pulpy and gritty games - it's mostly about the GM anyway.

I'm not saying d20 CoC is bad, because its clearly not, but its not very true to the atmoshpere and feel of the setting. Overall, d20 CoC has been good for the CoC fanbase, no arguement there- the more people interested in CoC, the longer the line is supported.

Some cthulhu fans would have you believe otherwise.

 

[JoeGKushner]

There is nothing wrong with just playing D&D. It's a system I've returned to time and time again and continue to enjoy.

It just doesn't do everything that other systems can do without a lot of tinkering.

The various Dark Age products from White Wolf or ah, the power of Exalted. Nothing quite like that in D&D.

The bone crunching force of an E '66' critical on your spleen causing all foes within a 15' radius to laugh for 10 rounds in Rolemaster is a sweet experience.

The battered, beaten hero with 15 stun who pushes his force blast to knock the super villain into the main engine just as it ignites in Champions... Another sweet experience.

D&D is great. It handles high fantasy in some instances pretty well but not perfectly. I enjoy it and will continue to, but still hope to find time and try other games just to see how they work.