AoOs gallore!

[CRGreathouse]

So according to their comments, if someone runs past you, and you have Combat Reflexes, you can hit them three times? Since they pass through three of your threatened squares?

The one-per-target-per-round rule is one of the major limiting factors on Combat Reflexes. Getting rid of it makes the feat much more "I wannit!"

I agree with Hypersmurf, and think his interpretation is in line with the rules as written.

 

[Hypersmurf]

As far as I know, each square you threaten is not a "separate threatened area". You have one area which consists of all your threatened squares. So moving through three sqares past an orc is still only one violation of the AoO rule.

Well, the article by Jonathan Tweet about AoOs implies otherwise... he constantly refers to threatened squares, leaving threatened squares, and so on.

Note the example where he points out that if the goblin takes no AoO as Tordek leaves square A, it can take one as he leaves square B. If the goblin had Combat Reflexes, the logical extension is that he can do both...

-Hyp.

 

[Uller]

How does that sound?

 

[KarinsDad]

Well, the article by Jonathan Tweet about AoOs implies otherwise... he constantly refers to threatened squares, leaving threatened squares, and so on.

Note the example where he points out that if the goblin takes no AoO as Tordek leaves square A, it can take one as he leaves square B. If the goblin had Combat Reflexes, the logical extension is that he can do both...

Well, that's one logical extension.

Another is that you threaten one area, but it is easier to talk about threatened spaces since they are the specific case of the general rule (i.e. people understand the concept of leaving a space easier than moving out of a threatened area and staying still within it). So, although Jonathan Tweet is talking about threatened spaces, it does not mean that you can make the further implication.

 

[Psyduck]

Thanks for all of the input. Your responses helped quite a bit, but brought up another question; When punching, you don't threaten an area around you unless you have IUS, correct? Does this mean you have a reach of 0, and must move into your opponent's square to attack?

 

[SpikeyFreak]

No, moving through each square provokes an AoO.

Combatants with reach is the easiest and most common example.

If you say that you just threaten an area, then they don't get an AoO for you entering their area.

But as we all know, you DO suffer an AoO if you move into the square right next a creature with reach, because you have left one threatened area and moved into another.

--Frex Spikey

 

[Corwin]

No, moving through each square provokes an AoO.

Combatants with reach is the easiest and most common example.

If you say that you just threaten an area, then they don't get an AoO for you entering their area.

But as we all know, you DO suffer an AoO if you move into the square right next a creature with reach, because you have left one threatened area and moved into another.

--Frex Spikey

But how does that strengthen your argument? Where is your evidence? Other than opinion, that is.

Yes, moving from one threatened square to another provokes the AoO. But nowhere in your example is it shown that each square is a seperate threatened area. An ogre has a threatened area consisiting of 25 squares (if you include the one he is standing in). Moving around anywhere within this area provokes ther AoO. Just because the combat system is divided into neat 5' squares, it is easier to discuss it in that matter.

Karensdad explained it quite well. Let me rewrite the last paragraph of your post I quoted to elaborate:

"But as we all know, you DO suffer an AoO if you move into the square right next a creature with reach, because you have left one square and moved into another within its threatened area."

You see, one area, multiple squares.

 

[IceBear]

Moving from one threatened square to the another threatened square causes the AoO. I think the "other designers" wanted to allow more than one AoO per opponent per opportunity.

If G is the goblin, and F is the fighter armed with a sword (and with Combat Reflexes), as follows:

_G_
123
4F5
678

then this change in the AoO rules, would allow an AoO as the Goblin moves from square 2 to 4, then from 4 to 6, and then from 6 to outside the threat range of the fighter.

I might take a very literal interpretation of this proposal from the "other designers" to only allow one AoO per opponent per opportunity. Thus, only one for movement (as the other two movement AoO are "the same opportunity"; well, not really, but I'm being literal here ), but another if he tried to drink a potion or shoot a bow within the threat range.

IceBear

 

[Corwin]

Something interesting occured to me upon reading IceBear's post.

If, as some of you believe, every step is a separate possible triggering of an AoO, then how does moving back 30 feet and then casting a spell trigger an AoO? By the time the triggering effect (casting the spell) occurs, the guy is 30 feet away. Otherwise, the player would move his mage back 30 feet and then decide to cast a spell, trying to convince the DM that it is too late for the monster to take the AoO because he is now out of reach. It doesn't work that way. Your whole round's worth of actions influence every other part of it. The mage got hit before he could get away even though he hadn't technically declared he was going to cast a spell yet.

Rather, I would suggest looking at things more fluidly, and less incrimentally. It isn't that the spellcaster moved 30 feet and then cast a spell, it's that he was doing it all at once. So the act of starting a spell while fleeing back 30 feet instigated the AoO before he could move away.

The same can be said for the "moving past an opponent". It isn't that you took a step <ouch>, another step <ouch> and another <ouch>, it's that you ran past your opponent and he took a swing at you. The act of moving through all of his threatened squares drew a single AoO just like the wizard moving back 30 feet casting a spell.

One trigger, one AoO.

 

[SpikeyFreak]

But how does that strengthen your argument? Where is your evidence? Other than opinion, that is.

Yes, moving from one threatened square to another provokes the AoO. But nowhere in your example is it shown that each square is a seperate threatened area. An ogre has a threatened area consisiting of 25 squares (if you include the one he is standing in). Moving around anywhere within this area provokes ther AoO. Just because the combat system is divided into neat 5' squares, it is easier to discuss it in that matter.

Karensdad explained it quite well. Let me rewrite the last paragraph of your post I quoted to elaborate:

"But as we all know, you DO suffer an AoO if you move into the square right next a creature with reach, because you have left one square and moved into another within its threatened area."

You see, one area, multiple squares.

I think either I wasn't clear or you didn't read something right in my post.

Your post actually helps what I was trying to say. You would provoke 3 attacks if you moved through 3 squares, just like you provoke 1 attack if you move through 1 square (in the case of walking up to a creature with reach).

--Really Confused Spikey