AoOs gallore!

[IceBear]

Yeah, Corwin that's how I see an AoO for moving back and casting a spell too. In all fairness to the others, I think that's how everyone sees it.

I guess your description is a good rationalizing to limit the number of AoO with the one AoO per opponent per opportunity chain. In my case, most of the time this occurred, a creature moved (drew an AoO) and then stopped and did something else that drew an AoO. If someone tried to take multiple movement AoO against an opponent and I felt that it was too cheesy, I'd use your argument

Thanks!

IceBear

 

[SpikeyFreak]

If, as some of you believe, every step is a separate possible triggering of an AoO, then how does moving back 30 feet and then casting a spell trigger an AoO? By the time the triggering effect (casting the spell) occurs, the guy is 30 feet away. Otherwise, the player would move his mage back 30 feet and then decide to cast a spell, trying to convince the DM that it is too late for the monster to take the AoO because he is now out of reach. It doesn't work that way. Your whole round's worth of actions influence every other part of it. The mage got hit before he could get away even though he hadn't technically declared he was going to cast a spell yet.

Oh dear god, now we're getting onto the topic of retro active AoOs and I don't have the heart to go through this again. I'll try though.

If you move 30' not provoking an AoO, then you don't get to cast a spell. Period. Your action is over.

If you say that you are going to move back 30' AND cast a spell, then you provoke an AoO because you weren't backing away as carefully as you would have otherwise. If you get tripped or whatever, you still have provoked the AoO because of how you were moving.

--Weak Spikey

 

[IceBear]

Hey Spikey,

I was going to post like you too, but then I re-read his post and saw that he did understand how "retro-active" AoO works. He's trying to rationalize each movement through a threatened area as being "one opportunity" not multiple ones.

IceBear

 

[SpikeyFreak]

Hey Spikey,

I was going to post like you too, but then I re-read his post and saw that he did understand how "retro-active" AoO works. He's trying to rationalize each movement through a threatened area as being "one opportunity" not multiple ones.

Well, assuming that's true:

Originally posted by Corwin
Rather, I would suggest looking at things more fluidly, and less incrimentally. It isn't that the spellcaster moved 30 feet and then cast a spell, it's that he was doing it all at once. So the act of starting a spell while fleeing back 30 feet instigated the AoO before he could move away.

Or an easier way to think about it:

***Disclaimer: This is just how I look at it, you are free to look at it any way you like.***

You are not starting to cast as you start to move. You are moving more quickly (and therefore more carelessly), so that you will have time to cast the spell.

--Personnalized Spikey

 

[Corwin]

Geez, I don't understand. Spikey, how on Earth do you get that out of my post. IceBear is right and I don't understand the problem you are having with my argument.

I was very clearly explaining why I think moving through multiple threatened sqares (of one opponent) does not provoke more than one AoO. Ah well. I give up.

I am going to quit while I'm behind.

Thanx IceBear. Your understanding of my point helped me keep my sanity. Otherwise I would have wondered if I made any sense at all. At least I know it is possible for someone to understand what I was saying.

 

[SpikeyFreak]

Geez, I don't understand. Spikey, how on Earth do you get that out of my post. IceBear is right and I don't understand the problem you are having with my argument.

I was very clearly explaining why I think moving through multiple threatened sqares (of one opponent) does not provoke more than one AoO. Ah well. I give up.

I am going to quit while I'm behind.

Thanx IceBear. Your understanding of my point helped me keep my sanity. Otherwise I would have wondered if I made any sense at all. At least I know it is possible for someone to understand what I was saying.

I'm not going to let you out that easy.

You agree that if you move up to a creature with reach, you provoke an AoO. Why do you agree?

You are saying that if you move completely through someone's threatened area, three '5 squares, into and out of each one, you only provoke 1 attack. If that's true, what is the AoO from when you walk up to a creature with reach?

--Black Hole Spikey

 

[IceBear]

I'm not going to let you out that easy.

You agree that if you move up to a creature with reach, you provoke an AoO. Why do you agree?

You are saying that if you move completely through someone's threatened area, three '5 squares, into and out of each one, you only provoke 1 attack. If that's true, what is the AoO from when you walk up to a creature with reach?

--Black Hole Spikey

That's an AoO for moving through the creature's threatened area. If an ogre has 10ft reach, it doesn't get an AoO for you entering the 10ft square, but when you LEAVE that square. Thus, this AoO is the same as when the goblin tried to run rings around the fighter.

IceBear

 

[Corwin]

I'm not going to let you out that easy.

Aside from the fact that I am indeed posting another response, what made you think you had that power?

You agree that if you move up to a creature with reach, you provoke an AoO. Why do you agree?

This is strange to me. Why isn't it obvious? Not only do the rules clearly say so, but you are moving from one square within the ogre's threatened area to another square. Does that not trigger an AoO? It does.

You are saying that if you move completely through someone's threatened area, three '5 squares, into and out of each one, you only provoke 1 attack. If that's true, what is the AoO from when you walk up to a creature with reach?

Per the rules, moving from one threatened square to another is what draws the AoO. In my interpretation (and others'), a threatened area consists of multiple sqares within that one area. If you move from the "outer ring" to the "inner ring" of an ogre, you are getting the AoO. This is true with both my interpretation (threatened area) and yours (individual threatened squares).

Is there something you are trying to get at, that I am not seeing, with this question?

 

[SpikeyFreak]

If you run through a medium sized non-reaching creature, why wouldn't you provoke 3 AoOs for running through 3 threatened areas?

On one hand you are saying that you provoke an AoO for leaving a threatened square (the reach example), then you are saying that you don't in another situation (the running circles around example).

I'm confused again.

--Dense Spikey

 

[Corwin]

If you run through a medium sized non-reaching creature, why wouldn't you provoke 3 AoOs for running through 3 threatened areas?

On one hand you are saying that you provoke an AoO for leaving a threatened square (the reach example), then you are saying that you don't in another situation (the running circles around example).

AARRGGG! One last try before I go pull out what little hair I have left.

OK, here goes nothin'...

When you move up next to an ogre, you draw the AoO because you took your MEA to get up close to it. Doing so forced you to move through its threatened area, thus provoking the AoO.

When the goblin runs past the fighter, it takes its MEA to move. Having done so, it turns out that it had to go through the fighter's threatened area (3 squares in this case), thus it provokes an AoO.

This was the point I was trying to make with my "postumous AoO" example using the mage casting a spell then moving 30 feet. The move, once completed, determines if there is an AoO or not. Maybe it wasn't the most clear of examples, but I hope the end-around finally got me into the end-zone.

Here's hoping.