Appalling conduct regarding DriveThru/DRM

Yair said:
3) It will offend our retailers (both for cheap prices and for competetion from piracy)

1 I find silly (it takes virtually no effort with modern layouts, and the people at DTRPG will do even that for you), 2 I find wrong, but 3... what can you do :confused: I can understand someone over-pricing or downright refusing to sell pdfs due to pressure from retailers. It's their livelihood.

I still won't purchase DRM-protected prodcuts. If I ever wanted a prodcut badly enough I will download one from some P2P network and pay the publisher directly - I get a better product, and they get their due. But I doubt if it will come to that; most probably I'll just not bother getting it.

1.) Yeah, I pretty much agree that the policy is silly, but I do understand it. And the bigger a company is the less likely they are to take any level of risk for a small profit.

2.) Wrong as in you think I am wrong, or that they are wrong if that is what they are thinking? :p

3.) That is Fantasy Flight's excuse for their stupidly high prices. This one I don't understand. I am not saying that it may not be their actual reasoning, simply that I don't understand it.

The only DRMs I am likely to download (and have downloaded) are the free ones, and then only to see if I would desire to purchase them in printed form. (So I downloaded Exalted, but I have not downloaded BESM, as I have no interest in buying it.And once I confirmed that I really did not have any interest in Exalted I deleted it.)

The Auld Grump, who will likely continue to use DTRPGs free downloads as samples for later purchase...
 

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TheAuldGrump said:
2.) Wrong as in you think I am wrong, or that they are wrong if that is what they are thinking? :p
The latter :)

3.) That is Fantasy Flight's excuse for their stupidly high prices. This one I don't understand. I am not saying that it may not be their actual reasoning, simply that I don't understand it.
*shrug* if someone says he is under pressure from retailers not to sell digital versions at cheap prices, I'll have to take his word for it. If someone says he is making most money from retailers, so can't afford to raise their ire in this matter, I'll have to take his word for it. They know their own situation much better then I (or, I suspcet, you) do.
 
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Yair said:
The latter :)


*shrug* if someone says he is under pressure from retailers not to sell digital versions at cheap prices, I'll have to take his word for it. If someone says he is making most money from retailers, so can't afford to raise their ire in this matter, I'll have to take his word for it. They know their own situation much better then I (or, I suspcet, you) do.

This is more common than you think. There are a number of retailers who will stop carrying your product or reduce their orders if it is available in PDF. A subset of these retailers will cease to carry your entire line if one book is pdf'd. In a way, I understand. They do not want to support a competitor. It is worse that it is a publisher that they would be competing against. A retailer cannot hope to compete with a company that can decrease their price under any hope of matching it in their stores.

Now, I also think we have to acknowledge two different types of manufacturers. Those that a in the distribution channel and strictly PDF publishers. Print mpublishers are forced into a certain pricing scheme if they are going to work with traditional distribution. PDF and non-traditional publishers (those outside the channels) can price lower since there are no middle men. They pay for this with less profits. I do not want to argue about whether it is more profitable to be outside the traditional distibution channels, that would be a different thread. Suffice it to say, the structure is CURRENTLY (meaning I do believe it is changing) in place to sell more throught he traditional channels than off your website.

With that thought in mind, you want to alienate as few of the retailers as possible. They are going through a rough time right now as most are suffering at the hands of the following problems:

1) Sales are down. Some think this is a result of PDFs, others of discounters, other that it is related to online retailing, and others yet believe it is to do with a "glut". Me, I think it is a little bit of everything.

2)A transition, as any market goes through, is occuring in the RPG market. PDFs are something that most B&M retailers cannot deal with. While most customer oriented boards have been screaming about DRM and the evil publishers that use it, the manufacturer and retailer boards ahve been more focused on the fact DTRPG exists and that PDFs are gaining moment. I really think that Retailers fall into a couple of categories. There are those that don't know PDFs exist and are at a loss as to why sales are dropping, those that see PDFs as a direct threat to their business and feel they can keep the industry the way it is by threatening manufacturers, and those very few that are looking for ways to capitalize on the PDF "craze".

3) Retailers who here "I can get that book fo 1/x of the print price and print it off at work for free" are getting tired of it. I have heard so many people talk about how they insist that want higher production values (and many still do) but they also want cheap. The market seems (and this is merely my opinion) to be very muddled rught now. Consumer demand is all over the place. This is a sign of change. Hopefully, it means more consumers coming into the market but we will see. Meanwhile, in a broader sense, manufacturers must be sensitive to consumer needs and retailer needs. If I offer my books for 50% off, the consumers will be happy. The retailers, who can only decrease the price to 50% at break even (if that), will be upset. Understandably so since they need to make money and have a thing called Cost of Goods Sold which is they Cost of Selling a manufacturer's Goods.

In the end, it is not so easy just to say, I won't sell through Distribution. For small manufacturers, it is a way to build brand recognition. For big manufacturers, it is a way to make millions of dollars. I think things are changing though, and B&M retailers will need to change with them or close down. More and More manufacturers sell their stuff online at a discount, more PDFs at considerably less than the in print book, and more online retailers. All this means rough sailing ahead.

Of course, this is all my opinion coupled with my experiences, toake them for what you will.

Bill
 

GMSkarka said:
The "eBook" thing might be the loophole here, though....of course, it's still a slimy insinuation, and one that has been carefully crafted to be so. Steve apologized to James for the initial "misunderstanding", and then just re-worded it, so that it says exactly the same thing. A real class act, there.

Of course, if you don't know the difference between class act and smear-tactic that might be confusing, I guess.
May I suggest that a sticky thread bemoaning a lack of civility in this forum is NOT the place to use phrases like "slimy insinuation" and "a real class act, there"?

The point of this thread was to caution people to respect the ENWorld rules regarding this issue, not to provide a space in which to continue flouting the rules.

Daniel
 

...and may I suggest that coming in days after the issue has calmed down and trying to stir it up again with holier-than-thou moralizing doesn't really help anything?

Thanks.
 


GMSKarka, Pielorinho is a moderator here. Facetious comments about his moderating regarding your conduct is not acceptable here. I suggest that you contact him directly if you feel you have been treated unfairly.
 

I apologize. I was unaware that he was a moderator....although I now see the title under his name, which I must've missed earlier. Whereas I would still question the neccessity of commenting days after the issue had already calmed down, I wouldn't have bothered to comment had I realized he was posting in an official capacity.
 

I just bought my first DRM'd Ebook. As a customer, I've had no problems with it so far.

It's Draconic Lore, if you care.

The price was right, only $5, so no complaints there... though the rest of the stuff there was pretty high, IMHO.

It was a cinch to activate the DRM software on all the machines I wanted to be able to view it on.

I've got the file burned onto a CD, and I can plug the CD into any of my machines and view it.

From the point of view of a customer, I'm happy.
 


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