Appeal of the defender?

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Heh meatshields, I remember when that was considered a compliment.

But I am not seeing a problem here, in 4th edition you are supposed to be able to get by without having all of the roles filled.

Are you? It is certainly possible, but it will certainly be harder!
The question might be will it be as hard as having no Cleric (or close equivalent) in 3E? Or worse? Or better?

Personally, I see no reason not to play a Defender. I already enjoyed Fighters in 3E though (even if they are cleric-dependent and overshadowed by primary spellcasters), so take this with a grain of salt.

What I like in 4E (which is true in 3E, too) is that the Defender can deal out serious amounts of damage. He might be overshadowed by a Striker, but at least he doesn't have to run around and fight his target - he stands in its way, and stays there.

 

[Cirex]

I think you just have to have the right frame of mind. If you have a player who can appreciate this, you have a good defender:

My comrades are my weapons, and I am their shield.
While I draw breath, they shall not perish.
So long as they live, our enemies will fall.
I am defender, protector, guardian.
I am a Paladin.

- Cathela, <The Eleventh Hour>
​

Are you a EJ forums stalker too?


You can't really force someone to play a role they just don't want. I haven't had a healer in my games for a long while, to the point of letting wands of cure wound (any) be used by any character, since the rogue sometimes fails with UMD. I can't force my players to play a cleric. They know they need it, but only thinking of having tons of super cool spells but having to swap them for heals in the end...

I think defenders are pretty cool at 4e, for what we have seen already. Paladin has secondary healing abilities, which makes him quite desirable and the fighter has some cool tactical moves, like attacking those who shift and all that.

If they think defenders are "losers", well...I'm not sure what can I say.

 

[SkidAce]

Let them play ANY combination of classes they like and adjust the campaign to suit.

Had several campaigns where they played a thieves guild, so I varied the opponents to match....Ninjas!

There was a group of almost all wizards...their main opponents were Blood Druids!

And vice versa, there was a military style campaign where they thought they were special forces, no wizards, no clerics. So they conducted hit and run campaigns against the evil army.

No worries.

 

[robertliguori]

You know, I think that a party of five defenders would be awesome. Simply make sure that everyone is in everyone else's zone of control and you've got a five-man phalanx that will not go down. It would be highly weak against artillery, but I expect that defenders will end up being the new cleric; previously undesirable, so given an overlarge power-boost in the new edition.

 

[ArmoredSaint]

None of my players want to play a defender. Not in 3rd and still not in 4th.

According to them, defenders are "dumb servants" and "meat shields" whose sole job is to get hurt/ be incapacitated so the wizards and assassins can bask in the limelight.

Can anyone help me put a positive spin on the defender for my players?

Are you kidding? Defenders get all the cool toys! Nobody else gets awesome armour like they do, and thus their ACs are likely to be the best in the game.

 

[Patlin]

Let them play whatever they want, they can adjust their tactics accordingly. Unbalanced parties can be fun.

That said, I just played the Dwarven Fighter in escape from Sembia last night, and she was fun. I don't think I played a fighter in all of 3.x, they really aren't my thing, but 4e breathes new life into them.

 

[Andor]

Now that I think about it, it's because of Anime. My players like Anime.

Anime protagonists are never defenders. They are always lean, wiry strikers or wizards. With inferior, muscular defender sidekicks.

While Western protagonists are defenders. With sneaky rogues and crafty wizards as sidekicks.

??? Make them watch Lodoss Wars. Parn ftw!

 

[Dausuul]

Ugh, tons and tons of Paladin NPCS were mowed down protecting my players. One Paladin was even sent to Hell protecting them...

During the Castle Ravenloft adventure they were in a corridor following a celestial who was leading them into a trap, when Bar-Lguras swoop down and start wrestling the adventurers. The Mage dimension doors away, and the rogue escape artists out of their grasp, but the NPC Paladin is teleported 2000 ft in the sky (will save...) and starts plummeting down to his doom. Being a paladin he had nothing that could possible save him.

Except for diplomacy. Since the Paladin witnessed his entire regiment get slaughtered by Strahd, he tried to use diplomacy to make a pact with the Bar-Lgura (In game reason: The Paladin decides that losing his status is worth being able to cleanse the land of evil/ Out of game reason: The group would suffer TPK without a defender).

Anyway, the Paladin fails his diplomacy and slams into the ground taking 1,990d6 damage and is sent straight to Hell where he is tortured for all eternity for bargaining with Demons.

Basically this only solidified the fact that defenders are eternal losers to my players.

If that's the sort of thing that regularly happens to defenders in your games, I'd come to the same conclusion.

Anyway, you shouldn't generally push people to play things they don't want to play. If there's someone in the group who wants to be a front-line heavy fighter, but has concluded that D&D hates front-line heavy fighters and makes them teh suck (not an unreasonable conclusion based on 3E), point out that 4E has made a big effort to fix that and suggest that s/he just give fighters a try. But if nobody even wants to be a front-line heavy, why would you force them? A party should be able to get by without a defender.

 

[Surgoshan]

While Western protagonists are defenders. With sneaky rogues and crafty wizards as sidekicks.

There's the Man With No Name. He's a ranger. Which is now a striker. Anyway, definitely not like Conan the Barbarian or any other sword & sorcery hero.

 

[Storminator]

Seriously? Jack Burton is from Big Trouble in Little China. A D&D movie if ever there was one, and a classic "B" movie.

You fail.

Burton gives his little speech, and the villain says "who?" and Jack has to answer "Jack Burton. Me."

PS