Applying Half-dragon template to human fighter?

[Xar666]

When applying the Half-dragon template it says to bump up the base creatures Hit dice by 1 to a maximum of d12.

This is for a Half-dragon/Half-human fighter PC.

If you apply the template to a human and then take 2 levels in fighter, how is it done?

Do you:

A. Take a level 0 human, apply the template and then apply the 2 fighter levels?

B. Make a 2nd level human fighter and now apply the template?


If it is A, Do you use some sort of base Human stats (like the ones for dwarves, gnomes and elves in the Monster Manual). If so, where are these stats listed? Human is not in the Monster Manual. Or do you roll stats? Also, what is a human's base hit die, skill points..etc?


Question 2:

Does ECL affect stat raises and feats? For example if the above character has 2 levels of fighter and is a Half-dragon (+3 to ECL), he is now ECL 5. Is he considered being past level 4 for the stat increase and level 3 feat or must it be 4 class levels?


Thanks, in advance.

 

[Axiomatic Unicorn]

B.

And no. The character has experience and gear based on ECL, everything else, feats, skills ability increase comes from class levels.

 

[Wolf72]

basic stats

standard stats for most creatures are 10/11 (for a human it is all 10/11).

add in the 1/2 dragon scores (so str is 18/19 which ever ... they both have the same modifier)

then choose a class (the fighter in your example would have a d12 for hp, not a d10 ... in fact any class a 1/2 dragon took would go up one die.) ... The HD does not go beyond d12, in the DMG it says to give barbarians (which have a d12 already) a +1hp per level, sounds reasonable to me.

skill points are by character class. a 4hd human would probably be a commoner and gain commoner skill points. A 4hd ogre (mm example) would gain the dragon skill points (6+int mod x lvl) until it took a character class.

if you're doing a human fighter you might want to roll stats or use point buy. The default scores in the DMG are 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8 (nice way to make any quick NPC)

 

[Xar666]

B.

And no. The character has experience and gear based on ECL, everything else, feats, skills ability increase comes from class levels.

Ok, if the human fighter is now at 2nd level and I apply the template and it adds ECL 3, and bumps his HD up to D12. Do I now have the player roll 3d12 and add his Con modifier and add this to his HP?

In other words, does the PC get HP increases for those 3 ECL levels? Or does he just have the same HP as a 2nd level fighter..even though he is ECL 5?

Hmm.. now that I read your reply again it seems you are saying that ALL ECL does is determine your XP and starting gear and nothing else. So, as far as any sort of changes to the character go, you consider it as a 2nd level human fighter, correct?

 

[Axiomatic Unicorn]

Ok, if the human fighter is now at 2nd level and I apply the template and it adds ECL 3, and bumps his HD up to D12. Do I now have the player roll 3d12 and add his Con modifier and add this to his HP?

In other words, does the PC get HP increases for those 3 ECL levels? Or does he just have the same HP as a 2nd level fighter..even though he is ECL 5?

A half dragon human Fighter 2 would have 2d12+con hit points.
He gets zero hit points for the 3 ECL (other than the hit die size benefit)

Hmm.. now that I read your reply again it seems you are saying that ALL ECL does is determine your XP and starting gear and nothing else. So, as far as any sort of changes to the character go, you consider it as a 2nd level human fighter, correct?

correct

half dragons at low levels start out a bit weak because of low hit points, later they get really scary.
I let a player run one, and I am in no hurry to do it again.

 

[Xar666]

Ok I get how the template works now.

***

So do you think it is a mistake to let Player's run Half-dragon characters?

This PC will be in a 3 person party. The other characters are:

Human Cleric6
Half-Orc Fighter2/Rogue3

They are going to be starting "Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil" next week. Do you think the Half-Dragon(Silver)/Half-Human Fighter2 will be unbalancing?

Thanks again.

 

[Jhamin]

The half dragon template is all in all pretty balanced. You give up some HP at low levels for a lot of cool abilites. As you level up the lost HP are less and less apparent but the abilities are just as usefull. I think you are going to be fine.

Two points to consider

1) The upcoming book on playing monsters as PCs has increased the Half Dragon Template to +4 ECL based on the WOTC playtests.

2) Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil is a meatgrinder! If the DM plays it straight there is a very good chace of a TPK several times throughout the adventure. Keeping any character alive through the whole adventure is worth major bragging rights. I doubt your Half Dragon Fighter character will be too unbalancing.

 

[Axiomatic Unicorn]

At the level you are playing it will not be over-powered at all.
The breath weapon can throw some encounters off, but no big deal.

Go ahead and do it. I certianly wouldn't want you to not because of anything I said.

I think that the TRUE ECL of a half-dragon is different at lower levels than higher levels.

But who cares? If you have fun with it, no problem.

And if you are running RttToEE, you will have PLENTY of chances to purge undesirable characters.

 

[SpikeyFreak]

I don't think the HP thing you guys are stating is right.

The HPs from a template don't change class hit dice size, they change race hit dice size.

A troll has 6d8 hit points

A half-dragon troll has 6d10 hit points

A troll rogue 4 has 6d8 + 4d6 hit points

A half-dragon troll rogue 4 has 6d10 + 4d6 hit points

See what I mean? Class hit points are unaffected by your race.

--Racist Spikey

 

[Gromm]

See what I mean? Class hit points are unaffected by your race.

--Racist Spikey

DMG p58- Half Dragon (for applying to NPCs but thats irrellevant)

"Hit Die increases one type to max of d12(fo rall but barbarian add +1 hp/lvl +1 additinoal hit point)"

Normally your right, but races and templates are two totally different things. Templates change lots of things (look at liches and vampires- they change HD to d12 regardless of class).