Arcane Dart - Opinions?

[DaveMage]

In order to assist full arcane spellcasters, such as the sorcerer and wizard (especially those that run out of spells), I'm considering letting both have an "arcane dart" that is essentially a ranged weapon (but could be used in melee without provoking an attack of opportunity) that causes damage equal to the unarmed damage caused by a small-sized monk (which is based on level).

This dart would be considered a piercing weapon and magical for the purposes of overcoming damage reduction, but would need to beat the target's full AC to hit (i.e. NOT an auto-hit or a ranged touch). Arcane casters would get a bonus to hit equal to their Intelligence modifier (for wizards) or Charisma modifier (for Sorcerers). They would get a number of dart attacks per round dependent upon their base attack bonus.

In essence, it would be a spell-like ability with a somatic component (point and shoot).

Any ill game effects from doing this?

What say you?

 

[Pyrex]

Have you seen the [Reserve] feats in Complete Mage?

What you're proposing is very similar to the Invisible Needle feat in CM that lets casters throw force-darts every round (ranged touch attack to hit). The darts deal Xd4 damage where X is the highest-level force spell you have available. (i.e., if Magic Missile is prepared it does 1d4, Wall of Force gets you 5d4 damage, etc)

 

[WhatGravitas]

Any ill game effects from doing this?

What say you?

Even as a touch attack, it'd be fine. Because they're restricted a lot by their BAB.

See, most warriors (including archers), are supposed to hit regularly with their first attack. The extra attacks just make it even better. And they're powered by full BAB.

The "arcane dart" is much, much worse: It usually deals less damage (esp. compared to a decent magic bow), and Sorcerers and Wizards won't hit anything decent with their BAB, if they don't get the ranged touch. In fact, for quite a while, they're better, if they'd just use a crossbow - that's not a good sign.

Additionally, arcane dart-throwing sorcerers and wizards are usually only spell-conserving (in which case it's only a win-more and doesn't matter really much) or they're already in deep trouble - in which case having an error-prone attack isn't very helpful (esp. comparing to running away!)

Cheers, LT.

 

[DaveMage]

Have you seen the [Reserve] feats in Complete Mage?

What you're proposing is very similar to the Invisible Needle feat in CM that lets casters throw force-darts every round (ranged touch attack to hit). The darts deal Xd4 damage where X is the highest-level force spell you have available. (i.e., if Magic Missile is prepared it does 1d4, Wall of Force gets you 5d4 damage, etc)

I haven't checked them out yet, but do you need to have spell slots available to use it?

My goal would be to have something arcane when either all spells are exhausted or when you want to save the spells you have.

Also, I don't want these to be easy hits (ranged touch) because that might make them preferable to using spells. It would also be a benefit in the sense that wizards wouldn't have to carry around crossbows or other "mundane" weapons. Kinda going for that "mystical" feeling.

 

[DaveMage]

Even as a touch attack, it'd be fine. Because they're restricted a lot by their BAB.

See, most warriors (including archers), are supposed to hit regularly with their first attack. The extra attacks just make it even better. And they're powered by full BAB.

The "arcane dart" is much, much worse: It usually deals less damage (esp. compared to a decent magic bow), and Sorcerers and Wizards won't hit anything decent with their BAB, if they don't get the ranged touch. In fact, for quite a while, they're better, if they'd just use a crossbow - that's not a good sign.

Additionally, arcane dart-throwing sorcerers and wizards are usually only spell-conserving (in which case it's only a win-more and doesn't matter really much) or they're already in deep trouble - in which case having an error-prone attack isn't very helpful (esp. comparing to running away!)

Cheers, LT.

True, this attack isn't a great help - just another option.

I was thinking that since they would use their Int or Cha bonus to hit that "range touch" would be an automatic hit, whereas if it goes up against full AC then it balances out. A level 3 fighter with a melee weapon and 18 Str would have a +7 to hit (+8 with weapon focus), while a level 3 wizard, 18 Int would have a +5 to hit with the arcane dart.

I also don't want it to be a better (or equal) attack method as compared to the fighter since I'm thinking it's something that a spellcaster could use when they want to do something other than use up a spell slot, but not a choice they would make if their life depended on it.

 

[Ilium]

I developed something very much like this (with help from EN Worlders). It's called the Magebolt and it's here:

http://home.comcast.net/~jim.ade/ilium/HeirsOfEmpire.html#Magebolt

I think it will do what you want.

 

[WhatGravitas]

I also don't want it to be a better (or equal) attack method as compared to the fighter since I'm thinking it's something that a spellcaster could use when they want to do something other than use up a spell slot, but not a choice they would make if their life depended on it.

I never said they'd be as good as fighters - in fact, they'd be much worse - even with the touch attack. 1d4 per touch on first level - that's much worse than magic missile and magic missile scales better than the arcane dart.

This is basically less worth than a 1st level spell at will. And compare to the reserve feats, which generally do d6 per spell level. And the warlock, with the same damage, but a 3/4 BAB.

Make it a ranged touch with Dexterity, and I'd say you're golden. They will NOT outdamage or outshine the other characters with it, it's just slightly more useful than the crossbow. And has more flavour.

EDIT: As you may see here, I think that reserve feats do a tad bit too much damage for my taste. But you can see my take on the reserve mechanic... it's for AE, but easily adapted. Also look at my "Word of Fire" feat.

Cheers, LT.

 

[Pyrex]

I haven't checked them out yet, but do you need to have spell slots available to use it?

My goal would be to have something arcane when either all spells are exhausted or when you want to save the spells you have.

Yes, you do need to keep a spell prepared/available, so they won't work when you're totally empty, but rather encourage you to keep one of your higher level spell slots in reserve.

Also, I don't want these to be easy hits (ranged touch) because that might make them preferable to using spells. It would also be a benefit in the sense that wizards wouldn't have to carry around crossbows or other "mundane" weapons. Kinda going for that "mystical" feeling.

The damage is low enough on the Reserve feats that being a ranged touch attack is really not that big of an issue.

A 9th level mage dealing 5d4 with a Ranged Touch attack as a Standard Action is not game-breaking when that same 9th level mage could easily be expected to have a Caster Level 9 wand of Magic Missile or Scorching Ray.

Sure, he can do it every round all day, but so what? The party Fighter will still be outdamaging him round-over-round.

 

[DaveMage]

Ilium, Lord Tirian - neat sites! I like both the magebolt and "Word of Fire" feat.

I must ponder these developments.

Pyrex - thanks for your thoughts. Have you used the reserve feats in game? How do they play?

 

[Pyrex]

The one player in my game that has taken Reserve feats generally neglects them as he almost always has more useful things to do with his standard actions.

He tends to use them when clearing mooks.

In practice we have found that they are definately not overpowered, and that some are probably even too weak given that they combine small effects with small ranges.