D&D (2024) Thrown weapon and duelling fighting style.

[UngeheuerLich]

See, in 2014 I agree with you. In 2024, things changed with how they rewrote Ranged property.

See, it is not the ranged property, but the range property.

It was a bad change IMO...

A bad wording change.

If any wewpon with the range property was a ranged weapon, the improvised weapon entry would have you make melee attack rolls with disadvantage.

 

[Oofta]

Ya know what? I haven't had enough sleep the last few days. Ignore pretty much everything I've contributed to this thread.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Ya know what? I haven't had enough sleep the last few days. Ignore pretty much everything I've contributed to this thread.

Oh. No. That was good input. The wording could indeed be clearer.

 

[KryHavok]

No weapon in the weapon chart has the word "ranged" (or "melee" for that matter) in it.

The weapons table section headers tell you whether’s a simple or martial weapon and whether it’s a ranged or melee weapon.

A dagger is a simple melee weapon. A dart is a simple ranged weapon. Both have the thrown property.

 

[MarkB]

I think we need to ignore this entry as a basis for any rulings... Because it would disquality Reach weapons from counting as melee weapons if they actually use their Reach.

And also because it would make a crossbow a melee weapon if you use it to shoot someone five feet away.

 

[Oofta]

Oh. No. That was good input. The wording could indeed be clearer.

The chart indicates Melee or Ranged like it did in the 2014 PHB. Somehow when I did my search to double check I missed it.

So a weapon can be range (vs ranged) and melee weapon. Which still gives me a headache because Sharpshooter says

Bypass Cover. Your ranged attacks with weapons ignore Half Cover and Three-Quarters Cover.​

​

Okay, no problem. If I take this feat I can ignore half and three-quarters cover with my thrown daggers. Cool.

But then they change from "ranged attacks" to "ranged weapons" for the next two.

​

Firing in Melee. Being within 5 feet of an enemy doesn’t impose Disadvantage on your attack rolls with Ranged weapons.​

Long Shots. Attacking at long range doesn’t impose Disadvantage on your attack rolls with Ranged weapons.​

​

Why? Just ... why? The first benefit applies for all range attacks but then I can't, for example, throw darts in close quarters and there's no way to get around the long range penalty for my javelin thrower. Firing in melee with a thrown weapon is a really niche case but the range thing? The one thing that might give throw my strength based PC a bone by having a ranged attack that doesn't suck? Nope.

Ah well. I'll house rule it like I always have and allow sharpshooter with thrown weapons if you want. And ... I think I should go take a nap now because now I'm just ranting.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

The chart indicates Melee or Ranged like it did in the 2014 PHB. Somehow when I did my search to double check I missed it.
View attachment 380346

View attachment 380345

So a weapon can be range (vs ranged) and melee weapon. Which still gives me a headache because Sharpshooter says

Bypass Cover. Your ranged attacks with weapons ignore Half Cover and Three-Quarters Cover.​

​

Okay, no problem. If I take this feat I can ignore half and three-quarters cover with my thrown daggers. Cool.

But then they change from "ranged attacks" to "ranged weapons" for the next two.

​

Firing in Melee. Being within 5 feet of an enemy doesn’t impose Disadvantage on your attack rolls with Ranged weapons.​

Long Shots. Attacking at long range doesn’t impose Disadvantage on your attack rolls with Ranged weapons.​

​

Why? Just ... why? The first benefit applies for all range attacks but then I can't, for example, throw darts in close quarters and there's no way to get around the long range penalty for my javelin thrower. Firing in melee with a thrown weapon is a really niche case but the range thing? The one thing that might give throw my strength based PC a bone by having a ranged attack that doesn't suck? Nope.

Ah well. I'll house rule it like I always have and allow sharpshooter with thrown weapons if you want. And ... I think I should go take a nap now because now I'm just ranting.

I think, that making throwers not being able to throw ranged weapons too far is intentional. The trident with topple at range is nasty already against fliers.

I am still thinkin about a dart master fighter. Not sure how to make them work. Probably with a shield.

 

[KryHavok]

The chart indicates Melee or Ranged like it did in the 2014 PHB. Somehow when I did my search to double check I missed it.
View attachment 380346

View attachment 380345

So a weapon can be range (vs ranged) and melee weapon. Which still gives me a headache because Sharpshooter says

Bypass Cover. Your ranged attacks with weapons ignore Half Cover and Three-Quarters Cover.​

​

Okay, no problem. If I take this feat I can ignore half and three-quarters cover with my thrown daggers. Cool.

But then they change from "ranged attacks" to "ranged weapons" for the next two.

​

Firing in Melee. Being within 5 feet of an enemy doesn’t impose Disadvantage on your attack rolls with Ranged weapons.​

Long Shots. Attacking at long range doesn’t impose Disadvantage on your attack rolls with Ranged weapons.​

​

Why? Just ... why? The first benefit applies for all range attacks but then I can't, for example, throw darts in close quarters and there's no way to get around the long range penalty for my javelin thrower. Firing in melee with a thrown weapon is a really niche case but the range thing? The one thing that might give throw my strength based PC a bone by having a ranged attack that doesn't suck? Nope.

Ah well. I'll house rule it like I always have and allow sharpshooter with thrown weapons if you want. And ... I think I should go take a nap now because now I'm just ranting.

You do you, but FWIW the written rules make sense to me thematically based on the mechanical difference between throwing something and firing something.

That said, I want to house rule in ranged attacks in melee provoking opportunity attacks. :-D

 

[Oofta]

You do you, but FWIW the written rules make sense to me thematically based on the mechanical difference between throwing something and firing something.

That said, I want to house rule in ranged attacks in melee provoking opportunity attacks. :-D

I have other issues with things like longbows. A typical medieval longbow had a pull weight of over 100 pounds, with some as 150 or even 180 pounds depending on who you ask. You are not going to be able to use a real world longbow effectively if you aren't strong.

It's just another example of giving dex based warrior types virtually all the benefits (don't get me started on dual hand crossbows not needing a free hand to load if you have the feat ) and strength based characters are just SOL.

But this is getting off topic and I'm just ranting because I'm tuckered.

 

[Xeviat]

I have other issues with things like longbows. A typical medieval longbow had a pull weight of over 100 pounds, with some as 150 or even 180 pounds depending on who you ask. You are not going to be able to use a real world longbow effectively if you aren't strong.

It's just another example of giving dex based warrior types virtually all the benefits (don't get me started on dual hand crossbows not needing a free hand to load if you have the feat ) and strength based characters are just SOL.

But this is getting off topic and I'm just ranting because I'm tuckered.

Isn't the longbow heavy and thus needs a high strength to be wielded effectively?