Arcane/Divine

[fuindordm]

There are a lot of wishes floating around for 4e.

My own is that they make up their minds about the distinction between arcane magic and divine magic.

In 1st edition, the distinction was clear: divine can heal, is better at divination (naturally), but is significantly weaker than arcane (only 7 spell levels, fewer spells exist, almost no good attack spells, etc.). There was very little overlap between the spell lists.

In 3rd edition, the distinction is almost gone. Clerics can access almost any spell that wizards can through domains, their spells are just as powerful (slightly weaker for direct damage spells), and they can heal. It makes sense that the gods should be able to give any spell to their clerics, but it's disappointing that the wizard has no unique tricks left. I really feel that the cleric makes a better wizard than the wizard in 3rd edition.

The first edition feel was cool, but clerics weren't a terribly attractive choice.

In 4th edition, I'd like to see them get rid of the distinction entirely. If clerics can cast Power Word Kill just by taking the right domain, Wizards should be able to learn Regeneration. Spells are spells, and behave the same for everyone; the only difference is what level you access them at. In 3e terms, for example, CLW should be 1st level for divine casters and 2nd level for arcane casters.

After that, it's easy to tack on flavor. Borrow a page from Arcana Unearthed, maybe!

 

[shadow]

Or better yet, get rid of "divine" magic altogether. Of course, divine magic is one of the distinct "sacred cows" of D&D. However, I never liked the idea of divine spellcasters. In no other pre-D&D fantasy fiction or mythology am I aware of people who get access to magic just for joining the clergy. Moreover, I always felt that divine magic entailed several assumptions about the role of religion in a game - e.g. a polytheistic pantheon and gods who were fairly active in doling out magic and "kewl" powers to their followers.

 

[Varianor Abroad]

I'd rather see divine magic as a template for spells, and arcane magic handled similarly. Both give you access to certain spells that the others don't. Otherwise, the list is essentially the same.

 

[GreatLemur]

My problem with the current situation (well, the situation to date, really) is that arcane and divine powers are only halfway distinct from each other. I'd be happy if they'd finally choose to go either way: Either remove all distinctions (and let Clerics cast anything that's appropriate for their god, and Wizards cast anything that they have the time and money to learn), or make them really, truly distinct (by, say, ending the silly "divine spell" idea and letting Clerics work miracles through a whole different system).

 

[Tinker Gnome]

If anything, I would like to see the difference between Arcane and Divine magic strengthened.

 

[blackheart5]

I'd like to see only one spellcasting class, and it all operates in the same way. Wizard is about invoking magic by repetition and incantations, why can some people cheat that?

Kinda like the Elder Scrolls games, all magic is cast the same way, but many of the clergy know enough magic to heal wounds and such. A cleric class would have access to more abilities, such as more socially developed, maybe kind of like inspiring presence. But my opinion is mostly because I'd like to see something entirely fresh.

 

[Winterthorn]

The Arcane/Divine split is something I wouldn't mind seeing disappear at the root of the game, but I do think there should be distinctions how clerics/priests and druids access spells as opposed to bards, sorcerers and wizards. Basically all spells should be listed as simply magic spells; then throw in mechanisms that vary by class. It doesn't have to be complicated. Thus all classes can access all spells, but how powerful and effective those cast spells are should depend upon the class doing the casting. Thus, for example, Cure Light Wounds could be more effective if cast bu a cleric than cast by a wizard. Likewise Fireball should be easy for a Sorcerer, but challenge for a Druid.

Then, even classes who do not normally cast spells could be designed to be able learn a few spells with experience and practice. It would be less of a straight jacket and keep some of the older D&D flavour.

Doing this right and keeping it interesting would be the challenge

 

[WarlockLord]

Or better yet, get rid of "divine" magic altogether. Of course, divine magic is one of the distinct "sacred cows" of D&D. However, I never liked the idea of divine spellcasters. In no other pre-D&D fantasy fiction or mythology am I aware of people who get access to magic just for joining the clergy. Moreover, I always felt that divine magic entailed several assumptions about the role of religion in a game - e.g. a polytheistic pantheon and gods who were fairly active in doling out magic and "kewl" powers to their followers.

Ditto. I have always hated this. Most clerics in myth are the healer guys in white robes, and I hate the way that the cleric takes the wizard spells AND gets Divine Metamagic. (They won't get all the wizard spells, but still...). Many wizards in fantasy can use their powers to heal people, and it's stupid that the archmage who can stop time, summon balors, teleport across continents, and turn invisible can't heal a paper cut. This is sad.

It should be noted that a few wizard spells in the SC allow healing (Light of Venya, Synostodweomer, maybe others) but most of them are extremely weak compared to the cleric's power.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

In no other pre-D&D fantasy fiction or mythology am I aware of people who get access to magic just for joining the clergy.

I disagree.

If you look at 1Ed AD&D, several of the cleric spells were based upon miracles & rituals from the Old Testament and other RW holy texts. That has continued to this day.

 

[JoeGKushner]

Depends on what the cleric looks like.

If the differences between the cleric and the paladin aren't straightened out (heavily armored warrior with spellcasting and decent fighting power... quick, is it LG or another alignment... if it's not LG, it's a cleric, otherwise it's a flip of the coin!), then keeping the 'flavor' of the differences doesn't really matter because the game is still wobbling on old assumptions about what the game needs.

On the other hand, if clerics become more about the faith, then I can see some more use for miracles while still having the divine flavor. One of my mantras that I'm hoping to see enforced a bit more is that an effect is an effect is an effect. Now some tweaking might be necessary for 'flavor' purposes becacuse I don't see a time when players will be left to their own devices in spells and spell selection but I can hope.