Arcane Power: How long before the pirated copy appears

[Brown Jenkin]

Except the fans that are the type who pirate aren't what I'd call fans--I certainly wouldn't want a fan who was willing to copy my work without paying for it. If the so-called fans weren't doing that, I think PDFs would still be selling. And based on what I see in this temp forums, a LOT of people think doing that is no big deal. Whatever happened to having a sense of honor.

Ok, if thats the way you feel. But the people who were being sued were fans. You may not like them but they were doing what they were doing because they liked the music they were downloading, which makes them fans.

I don't believe I have a right to a product in a specific format, that's up to the manufacturer.

Actually in the U.S. you do have a right to a product in whatever format you choose. The supreme court has ruled it fair use to copy material you buy and convert it between formats as long as you don't distribute it afterwards. You don't have a right to force a manufacturer to sell you a product in the format you want, but if they sell you the product at all you have the right to convert it to a different format. I regularly rip the CDs I buy into mp3 format instead of buying those songs a second time in mp3 format because it is my right to do so. If you choose not to exercise your rights that is your choice, but the right is still there.

I know what happened. The problem is assuming that it was that alone which hurt the record industry. Piracy has something to do with it.

I will grant you that that sueing their fans wasn't the only thing, making bad music also contributed.

Right now, I think the best move from a business standpoint for D&D is to make the game more dependent on physical products and less on print-style products. Card and minis will likely rule. If piracy keeps up, maybe they'll make the 5th edition game totally dependent on cards--have a 32-64 page rulebook and then card sets contain all the spells and powers.

(I don't particularly like that because I like the older rules and dislike 4e's direction, but I can see this happening.)

Of course then it isn't D&D but another version of D&D miniatures.

 

[mudbunny]

Of course, piracy has an impact. But, refusing hundreds of millions in sales hurts too. And, is extremely idiotic.

You think that WotC's pdf sales were worth "hundreds of millions in sales"??

 

[Nifft]

You think that WotC's pdf sales were worth "hundreds of millions in sales"??

Perhaps he meant hundreds of millions of bytes?

Don't change the products, change the human's (maybe +1 to intelligence)

If that which "can change the nature of a man" is on the table, all sorts of Utopian stuff becomes viable.

That sueing your fans doesn't stop piracy and only pisses off the people who want to buy your product.

Yeah, most emphatically this. When you find that it is your policy to sue your own customers, it's time to re-think things.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Kask]

You think that WotC's pdf sales were worth "hundreds of millions in sales"??

Umm, if you are going to comment on a post read the entire thread. Otherwise, you are just wasting everyone's time.

 

[lutecius]

Part of the problem too is that in the latter half of the decade, with all the alternatives to news, people don't like listening to anything outside their "comfort zone". [...] I notice that the people who don't want to see piracy stopped love to quote the stories about it "increasing consumption", but when other facts dispute this, they dismiss the surveys as biased.

Sure, and major companies tend to overstate the impact of piracy. The thing is, even if illegal downloads are probably partly responsible for the music industry losses, there is no reliable way to measure lost sales so it's conjecture on both sides.

That 10 Days can make a lot of difference.

Have you SEEN how many people here go ga-ga over a new book. We've had threads discussing people trying to get their book first and cancelling on-line orders because their local store got the street date.

Again, I don't think a week's delay will make a difference for pirates who want the book for free. Those who are willing to pay for it and want it as soon as possible will likely buy it on release day or have it preordered.

Right now, I think the best move from a business standpoint for D&D is to make the game more dependent on physical products and less on print-style products.

That would be like the music industry going back to vinyl exclusively because digital media are easier to copy. Not smart.

Honestly, I think the only viable solution is for companies (not just WOTC but other media) is to incorporate it into their accounting.

Just like Theft is factored into a place like Home Depot, Piracy needs to simply seen as a cost of doing business....

Piracy is not so much a cost as a risk factor. There are no quantifiable losses but it makes companies overcautious. They still produce "sure hits" but niche products are less likely to see the light of day.

But I agree that "solutions" like DRMs or pulling digital products only affect customers or would-be customers. Suits aren't that dissuasive either and tend to generate ill will (many pirates are customers and vice versa)

I'm sure the music industry will survive somehow. Same for rpgs, as long as there are gamers, that is.

 

[SteveC]

So it looks like the answer, for a file 95% as good as the actual product, is 10 days. Okay, why not simply delay releases of PDFs by two weeks after the product ships, and return the older products to distribution now? If everything that's been done was to get those 10 days of sales, then you have a way to get them and please the fans who can't get the books any other way.

What's the possible issue at that point?

--Steve

 

[lutecius]

What's the possible issue at that point?

It would make sense, that's the issue.

Remember, WotC pulled the existing (already pirated) pdfs, making piracy the only way to get them ...to fight piracy.

 

[Brown Jenkin]

What's the possible issue at that point?

They believe that they will be able to come up with a non-PDF format for their productts that people wil pay for and will prevent piracy. I wish I lived in their world of rainbows and uinicorns.

 

[Aberzanzorax]

I don't think they do believe that. Mr Leeds stated that there are not even plans to work on distribution of PDFs or some alternative at this point.


Heck, they don't even have the resources anymore to work on the character builder and the VTT at the same time.



I think Steve C has a real point. If they released a quality OCR PDF three weeks after release, it would give the pirates little incentive to work on their own "pirate copy". The pirate effect on the market could be delayed even longer than it was this time by giving pirates an easy way to do what they do, if they just wait a tad longer.

Instead of merely 10 days, WotC could delay the pirated copy 3 weeks by releasing their own high quality version (at any price). If it were a reasonable price, people would have the option of buying it rather than stealing it or making their own legal copy (as some have stated they've done).

 

[Umbran]

Umm, if you are going to comment on a post read the entire thread. Otherwise, you are just wasting everyone's time.

While an occasional reminder from a peer to remain polite is acceptable, telling others when and how they may post in general is not. Please don't do so again.