D&D 4E Arcane Power II - ideascape

Larrin

Entropic Good
i wonder what it would take to make the Witch build be a Warlock and match the flavor text because it really reads like it was intended to be one

While the flavor is absolutely a fit for a warlock (they receive their spells from a patron via their familiar), the mechanical benefits of making them a warlock aren't really obvious to me.

If you simply made them a warlock, just a search and replace conversion of wizard to warlock and maybe Int becomes Cha on powers, this gives them access to warlock spells, warlock paragon paths, and warlock feats, none of which really make the witch, as it is currently written, better at being a witch. They're designed to be a wizard, drawing from wizard spells, feats and path, with a couple of thematic powers and skills and a familiar, and simply making them a warlock makes them a bit worse if anything.

What you'd need would be to start over keeping just a few things. You can probably adapt some of the coven benefits and keep the written AEDU powers, but the basic class abilities would need to be from scratch. Declare a pact, get a curse (cuz it's a witch!) that does controller effects, get a pact boon that enhances your controller powers when someone kills your cursee, maybe the coven powers can fit into your pact, maybe you get a skill based on pact, maybe you get a familiar that fits in with your curse and pact. In the end its going to be a 60-80% new class (not counting the powers which you might as well keep) whether you're still calling it a Witch or not.

So I think it would really take a full front-end overhaul of the class features to make the witch into a warlock class, if you want the change to be beneficial to the class. To the extent it would be a different class. But that's not a criticism of the idea, the witch isn't really much of a class as written, giving it a full overhaul and taking it into warlockdom just might be what it needs.
 

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Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
While the flavor is absolutely a fit for a warlock (they receive their spells from a patron via their familiar), the mechanical benefits of making them a warlock aren't really obvious to me.

If you simply made them a warlock, just a search and replace conversion of wizard to warlock and maybe Int becomes Cha on powers, this gives them access to warlock spells, warlock paragon paths, and warlock feats, none of which really make the witch, as it is currently written, better at being a witch. They're designed to be a wizard, drawing from wizard spells, feats and path, with a couple of thematic powers and skills and a familiar, and simply making them a warlock makes them a bit worse if anything.

What you'd need would be to start over keeping just a few things. You can probably adapt some of the coven benefits and keep the written AEDU powers, but the basic class abilities would need to be from scratch. Declare a pact, get a curse (cuz it's a witch!) that does controller effects, get a pact boon that enhances your controller powers when someone kills your cursee, maybe the coven powers can fit into your pact, maybe you get a skill based on pact, maybe you get a familiar that fits in with your curse and pact. In the end its going to be a 60-80% new class (not counting the powers which you might as well keep) whether you're still calling it a Witch or not.

So I think it would really take a full front-end overhaul of the class features to make the witch into a warlock class, if you want the change to be beneficial to the class. To the extent it would be a different class. But that's not a criticism of the idea, the witch isn't really much of a class as written, giving it a full overhaul and taking it into warlockdom just might be what it needs.
To me though it had neat creative elements it demonstrates some strange thinking like "wizards must do it all" even though the story and flavor is Warlock. Entirely acknowledging your analysis that it takes more than a casual bleep it needs Warlock pact treatment etc and heck yes curse == witch.
 

Larrin

Entropic Good
I would maybe have wanted to see an spellbased (no weapons) defender for the arcane power type. Some kind of abjurationist that wards ally's from attacks and reactively blasts violator of the wards. Maybe give them some trap-like sigils and zone type powers for an area control style of defending, funneling movement away from weaker allies. Maybe they have high AC/NADs and some damage resistance features but only for when you need them, in general you'll be a short distance from the front lines if things are going to plan. Turn the role on it's head a little.
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
Ritual Casting possible ways of adjusting it
Variable Casting Cost based on a skill roll so that skill in the rituals area is actually important not just being trained
Adjusting the Casting cost low levels are cheaper with a somewhat faster rate of increase making them more attractive at low levels... make some of the lower level rituals with scaling benefits dependent on using higher costs. So at higher levels you still want to spend more on them Alarm which catches extra dimensional enemies needs to be a scaled version for instance.
Channelling Allow Healing Surges to cast (a daily resource available to everyone.)
Make disenchant and sales efficiency relative to your effective level vs the item this functionally similar in some ways to rarity rules except the players in effect determine what is important to them and the payback for items sold is greater after you have in a sense achieved better contacts through levelling.
Ritual Mastery Feat(s) to allow casting more rituals of kinds as though you were higher level.
 
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Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
More...
Rituals that are what ifs like Alarm would also have trivial cost unless the What if condition was hit then they would have the normal for the level.
 
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Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
Maybe have more scroll cast rituals
Maybe have more 1 minute rituals
that could theoretically be guarded during combat a classic scene where you guard the ritualist.
Allow any spell to be cast as a ritual
 

Larrin

Entropic Good
The bug got planted in my brain so here is a quick and dirty writeup of a VERY controllery Arcane defender at level 1:


Syglamancer (names are hard :p)
Role: Defender
Power Source: Arcane
Key Abilities: Intelligence, Constitution, Wisdom
Armor Proficiencies: Cloth, leather, hide, chainmail, scale, light shield, heavy shield
Weapon Proficiencies: Staffs, daggers, slings, darts, clubs, and one simple weapon of choice.
Bonus to defense: +1 fort, +1 will
Implements: Staffs, wands, and armor. (can use the enhancement bonus to armor as implement bonus)

1st level HP: 15+con score
HP/Level: 6
Healing Surges: 9+con bonus
Trained skills: Arcana, choose three from list: Bluff, Diplomacy, Endurance, Heal, Insight, Intimidate, Perception

Class Features: Sygil’s Sheild, Sudden Warding,Subclass choice and benefit

Sygil’s Shield: Once during each of your turns, you may mark any number of enemies adjacent to sygils your control and/or within zone’s you’ve created. You gain “Sygil of Sheilding” as a power.

Sygil is a keyword that some powers will have. Allies, enemies, and spaces can bear sygils. They do not occupy the space or hinder movement unless specified. Sygils are considered adjacent to squares and creatures they are on.

Sygil of Sheilding: At-will, minor, sygil, Close Burst 5
Target: one ally in burst (two allies at 11, three at 21)
Effect: Until you use this power again the ally is bearing a sygil of shielding. While bearing the sygil they get +1 to the defense of their choice.


Sudden Warding: You gain the powers “Warding Defense” and “Warders Fury”

Warding Defense: Encounter power, immediate interrupt, close burst 5
Trigger: you or are hit with an attack
Effect: you gain +2 to all defense until the end of your next turn
(each ‘subclass’ gets its own 2nd effect’)
Earth warder: you gain resistance to the trigger attack equal to your Con bonus+x?
Special: Regain use of this power when you become bloodied for the first time in an encounter

Warders fury: At-will, immediate interrupt, close burst 5
Trigger: an ally bearing your sygil is attacked
Effect: Attacking creature in burst takes damage equal to 2+your Int bonus [will increase with level]
(each ‘subclass’ gets its own 2nd effect’)
Earth Warder: Triggering Ally gains temp HP equal to your con bonus
Note: this triggers on any sygil, not just the sygil of shielding.

Subclass: Chose Earth Warder or _ .
Earth Warder: Gain +2 endurance skill, and allies adjacent to sygils or within zones gain x more hp or temp hp when healed/granted temp hp. [not feeling this one so much]

Powers:
(apparently I got lazy but the sygils all last until the end of your next turn, maybe?)

Sygil of Motion: At-Will, standard, implement, sygil, close burst 5.
Effect: you place a sygil of motion in a square within the burst. Slide one ally adjacent to the sygil 2 squares. Make an attack against one enemy adjacent to the sygil.
Attack: Int vs Ref: Hit: 1d6+int force dmg, slide the target 2 squares.

Sygil of Forbearance: At-Will, standard, implement, sygil, close burst 5
Effect: you place a sygil of forbearance on a square. That square, and all adjacent squares are difficult terrain for your enemies. Attack one enemy in close burst 3 of the sygil.

Attack: Int vs Fort: Hit: 1d8+int force damage and movement through the difficult terrain created by the sygil cost the target 4 move instead of 2.

Earth Warder: Allies adjacent to the sygil have cover from ranged attacks.



Sygil of Reflections: encounter, standard, implement, sygil, close burst 5
Effect: You place a sygil of reflections on an ally within the burst. The next time the ally is hit by an attack the ally only takes half damage and the attacker takes an equal amount of damage of the same type. When you place the sigil you may attack one enemy adjacent to the sygil.

Attack: Int vs Ref: Hit: 2d8+int damage

Warded Circle of the Earthen Protectorate: Daily, standard, implement, close burst 5, zone
Effect: Create a zone within the bust. Allies in the zone gain X temp hp and may shift 1 square as a free action. The zone lasts until the end of your next turn and is difficult terrain for your enemies. Make an attack against each enemy in the burst:

Int vs fort: Hit: 2d6+int damage and push 3.
Miss: Half damage and push 1.

Sustain minor: the zone persists
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
OK another idea for rituals connect rituals more tightly to utility power so that learning a ritual (or martial practice of course) also basically meant acquiring a new utility power you can swap into a slot.
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
Cost analysis of rituals
1 by level 5 or so level 1 rituals became trivial but in many cases are still valuable much longer.
2 rituals could be envisioned as having more scaling (a level 1 alarm is not going to work against significantly higher level enemies whose stealth overwhelms the magic for instance. This means its cost all around will be scaling.
3 the game needs to make perhaps sub level 1 rituals ie in some quirkie sense level 5 can be the new level 1. This is like how monsters work a deadly encounter in the game is 4 levels higher and that will feel like a terrible expense and an inconsequential one is 4 levels lower.
 


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