Archer Ranger vs 2-Weapon Ranger

[glass]

Also nobody ever suggests that the mage should be getting his staff sundered all the time.

IMO, a typical mage character who somehow ended up in melee would be delighted if the enemy went for his staff rather than him...


glass.

 

[Evilhalfling]

IMO, a typical mage character who somehow ended up in melee would be delighted if the enemy went for his staff rather than him...


glass.

thats cause mage staves are generally useless. They are a non cost effective magic item, and rarely seen or used. They are just too expensive to be a non rechargeable item.

If you use a varient staff concept rather than big, expensive wands, they are a lot more valuable.

 

[Magesmiley]

Touching on the original question, I think part of the disadvantage a TWF has over an archer is that they usually need to put more feats/money in to get the same effect of an archer's multiple attacks.

Typically, including in your case, a TWF uses multiple different weapons due to the additional penalty to hit caused by not using a light weapon on the off hand. This can be countered with some feats, but the effect is often the TWF wielder either wields multiple light weapons (doing less damage) or more feats need to be spent to get some of the improvements such as weapon focus and weapon specialization. This is also true of magical weapons - the TWF has to spread the value around more, whereas the archer concentrates it into a single weapon.

On the flip side...
A TWF will, at higher levels, be able to dish out more attacks in a round than an archer. The big trick here is to concentrate on abilities that work the best with more attacks - sneak attack and favored enemy for example. In your case, it doesn't sound like the TWF had any of these going for him. The other catch is that the TWF will have lower attack rolls.

Also, a question...
Did the combatants have to waste actions drawing weapons? If they didn't, Quick Draw was an essentially useless feat for the TWF.

 

[Oryan77]

Did the combatants have to waste actions drawing weapons? If they didn't, Quick Draw was an essentially useless feat for the TWF.

I do regret choosing Quick Draw. I didn't sit down and powergame the NPC to create the most efficient character. I pretty much used Etools to create him, and then swapped around a few feats and equipment. Quick Draw is one that I left since I don't usually use it and I wanted to see how it held up in the game.

It came into play only once. But overall, I could have chosen other feats that would've been more useful than Quick Draw. Lesson learned

 

[Darklone]

One thing easily forgotten about TWF dudes, especially fighters with lots of feats: Throwing weapons (you need quickdraw). A TWF dude fighting against an archer who can keep him away and thus disable the dangerous full attack actions of the TWF fighter can simply throw back. Throwing axes or javelins aren't bad weapons and if the archer is rather close, you'll hit him pretty well with many attacks (which all benefit from Favored enemy and PBS and perhaps Rapid Shot as well). The only downside: You need PBS, Rapid Shot, TWF, ITWF and Quickdraw and enough strength to carry all those weapons.

Two advantages: Most TWF fighters don't need Precise shot, they close to melee. And if an opponent in melee drops after one or two attacks, you simply throw two or three more times at other opponents out of melee range.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

Yep, agreed on throw weapons. An effective TWF approach I've used is the dwarven fighter or ranger with a dwarven waraxe and throwing axes. It's feat intensive: You want Quick Draw, Point Blank Shot, Far Shot, and probably Precise Shot in addition to TWF feats. Attack profile goes like:

Round 1: Throw axe, close to within 20'
Round 2: Charge, using waraxe 2-handed
Round 3: Quickdraw throwing axe, go into ginsu mode

Once your target goes down, repeat Rounds 1-3 on next victim.

 

[Darklone]

Yep, agreed on throw weapons. An effective TWF approach I've used is the dwarven fighter or ranger with a dwarven waraxe and throwing axes. It's feat intensive: You want Quick Draw, Point Blank Shot, Far Shot, and probably Precise Shot in addition to TWF feats. Attack profile goes like:

Round 1: Throw axe, close to within 20'
Round 2: Charge, using waraxe 2-handed
Round 3: Quickdraw throwing axe, go into ginsu mode

Once your target goes down, repeat Rounds 1-3 on next victim.

Feat intensive yes. Include Hurling Charge

Precise Shot and Far Shot aren't necessary (only useful) if you use javelins and your DM doesn't often do outdoor combat (don't try at my games, I like to kill wizards outside of their fireball range with a bow). So all you really need for a level 6 dude is TWF, ITWF, Quickdraw, PBS, Rapid Shot. Dwarven Fighter 6? You can still pick 2 feats like Weapon Focus or the abovementioned Charge feats. Or Weapon Specialisation and use only throwing axes.

 

[Quartz]

And if you have two weapons of Returning you don't need the Quickdraw feat.

 

[Darklone]

And if you have two weapons of Returning you don't need the Quickdraw feat.

Wrong. The returning weapons come back next round, e.g. you can't throw them twice per round. Instead of two returning weapons I'd get 4 magical weapons with energy enhancements.

 

[silentspace]

Works great with double weapons too. Charge wielding two-handed. Full attack using TWF. Quickdraw javelins when someone's out of range.