Are Ability scores still dominant?

[Brother MacLaren]

For two reasons, I don't want stats to be unimportant. One, I want the Point Buy at character creation to be a meaningful balance of choices. Two, I want the stat boosts that may come with leveling to be meaningful rewards.

I think there's a lot of middle ground between "unimportant" and "as important as they are in 3E."
Spell DCs made Int/Wis/Cha far more important than they ever were before.
Power Attack made Str doubly useful -- you add to damage directly, and can turn your to-hit bonus into more damage.
The revision to saves, and the introduction of skills and touch AC, made Dex much more useful than it was before.
Con probably saw the least increase in utility from 2E to 3E.

 

[HeinorNY]

Do you remember? It was more than a month ago:

“Yeah. I thought about going high Con and using a hammer, but I wanted to start with the chance to make a couple of attacks, so I’m using rain of blows as my good weapon attack, and I went with high Wis so that I can switch to the better oppy powers later.”

So I think ability scores still will be dominant in 4E, maybe in a distinct way from 3E, but they will play an important part in the new edition.

 

[Irda Ranger]

So I think ability scores still will be dominant in 4E, maybe in a distinct way from 3E, but they will play an important part in the new edition.

And that's fine with me. The real "problem" with 3e (as I saw it) was that a Headband of Intellect was pretty much always the best thing a wizard could spend his money / headband slot on. I'd much rather a greater selection of "interesting" choices, like Headband of Mental Dominion and Headbands of Elemental Command, ... that sort of thing.

 

[Viktyr Gehrig]

As a Gish fanaticist, I can't tell you how many different high-level characters I've designed for one thing or another and bought the biggest Belt of Magnificence I could afford first thing.

Or how many times I've taken a small dip in Marshal in order to apply my Charisma bonus to various skill checks.

It isn't that ability scores are too dominant... it's that, for spellcasters, you need superhuman ability scores in order to use your high-level class features and the system doesn't give you those ability scores without ability-boosting magic.

You can get rid of such magic entirely-- without influencing balance much-- by using the Conan rules for ability score improvement. It really does make the game better, in my opinion.

 

[Arkhandus]

And I should think you need to have an Intelligence of 18 or so to understand high-level arcane magical principles....it's not like you're a cleric who just needs to learn the proper prayers so your deity will do all the heavy lifting for you out of gratitude for your devout worship. You're studying the equivalent of, like, quantum physics, chemistry, and trigonometry, only of the advanced-arcane-magical-theories sort, in order to bend reality to your will with spells like Wish, Gate, Prismatic Sphere, Plane Shift, Polymorph Any Object, etc.

 

[Styracosaurus]

I would prefer to see ability scores remain relevant, but not overwhelming in importance.

The wizard should benefit from a high Intelligence rather than be punished for a moderate intelligence. There are many aspects to the spell system where ability modifiers could be critical, especially saves.

For example:
I always liked the 2ed rules where a conjurer had to have a high constitution. Crunchy flavor, mmm mmmm good. In 4e, you could devise feats that supercharge your spell casting with a prereq of Constitution 13+.

There has to be a balance in there somewhere.
John

 

[Brother MacLaren]

The wizard should benefit from a high Intelligence rather than be punished for a moderate intelligence. There are many aspects to the spell system where ability modifiers could be critical, especially saves.

Right now, the wizard gains three spellcasting benefits from high Int:
1) Bonus spells are nice but not essential
2) The ability to cast higher-level spells is essential for a small fraction of games. For most games, a wizard could have a 16 Int and never be limited by it.
3) Spell DCs are the major reason that wizards want every +2 Int they can find. There are some good no-save spells for those with a moderate Int (Ray of Enfeeblement, Enervation), but a high-DC save-or-die spell is just so useful.