Are any companies continuing with 3.0 support ?

[Brown Jenkin]

I personally spent thousands on 3.0 stuff. I feel burned by WotC and will not spend a penny on 3.5 for two reasons. First I think it is an inferior rules set and secondly I expect 4.0 to be out in 2-3 years. If any third party manufacturers produce 3.0 compatable products I will still buy them but I will not buy any 3.5 only material. The question is how many people like me are out there and is this enough to produce material for. For me at least if they want my money they need to produce what I want and that is not 3.5.

As for the argument that you can use 3.0 material without converting and people won't notice or care that is fine, but if this works why bother buying the matrerial in the first place. If your not going to follow the rules why buy a product at all? why not just make up a monster from scratch give it an AC, HPs, BAB, and damage of whatever you want. No one will notice you arn't following the rules so it is OK.

 

[D'karr]

Yep not to mention the fact most companies that are in to make a profit, generally do not put out old stuff no matter WHAT others might like. Take Volkswagen. When's the last time you saw them put out an old style Bug?

Actually the last of the "old style" Bugs was rolled out of a factory in Mexico about a month ago. So, rather recently I'd say.

Bug Story

 

[Estlor]

My thought about 3.0/3.5 is this:

So I have some stuff on my shelf that is revised and some stuff that isn't. Big deal. They both use the same set of core rules, meaning I can open up my Creature Collection 2, throw in a monster with improper spacing, old skill point totals, and whatnot, and still have it play seamlessly with my bigger, badder, and more convoluted 3.5 characters. Some things, like DR which is often common sense and can be updated on reflex, will be changed, but the bulk of it will still be 3.0 and interact just fine with 3.5

And I think that's the point of the revision. Yes, some things changed drastically, but most of the drastic changes are things that can be enforced on the meta level as if it was always the case (DR, spell effects, feat specifics, etc) while the picky details of older material still works just fine.

 

[WizarDru]

opengamingfoundation.org

It's still like this.

Aaron (not paying attention)

I guess you aren't, since it isn't still like that.

Are you coming from a really old cache? It's been properly updated and released since 3/1/03.

As for the argument that you can use 3.0 material without converting and people won't notice or care that is fine, but if this works why bother buying the matrerial in the first place. If your not going to follow the rules why buy a product at all? why not just make up a monster from scratch give it an AC, HPs, BAB, and damage of whatever you want. No one will notice you arn't following the rules so it is OK.

Because the differences are minimal, extensive as they potentially can be. A monster from OA is not going to suddenly double in HD, Skill and feats. His CR may change slightly, but he's not going to suddenly become useless because his Spot is +15, when it should be +16, or because you've shorted him a feat and his DC for his web attack is one point higher than it would be if rebuilt under 3.5.

Many of the changes to monsters are superficial, at best. Can a player really tell the difference between a 3.5 orc and 3.0 orc? Not likely that they'd note or care. A 3.5 Girallon has a higher CR and his stats have been tweaked...but he's not fundementally different from a game perspective. One stat has gone down, another up and his overall profile is slightly different tweaked...but in combat, he works no differently. A change of -1 to his BAB isn't going to do much to the game, either way.

We're not talking about changing the way BAB works here, or changing some fundemental mechanic...just that a monster statted in 3.0 will work, tweaked or no, in 3.5. Many 3rd party supplements with new rules will work just as well under 3.5 as 3.0. If I use the new crafting rules from BadAxe's HoHF:Half-Orcs, for example, they work irrespective of the version of D&D I'm using.

That's not to say that you should run right out and get 3.5. If you really use that many non-core rulebook materials, it IS a hassle. But I suspect that for most, it's not a big one. It's only for folks who feel the absolute need to competely transform a 3.0 supplement in its entirety that will feel this pain (as I think Melkor has). For the rest, it will be a creature here, magic item there, spell there.

 

[Melkor]

Because the differences are minimal, extensive as they potentially can be. A monster from OA is not going to suddenly double in HD, Skill and feats. His CR may change slightly, but he's not going to suddenly become useless because his Spot is +15, when it should be +16, or because you've shorted him a feat and his DC for his web attack is one point higher than it would be if rebuilt under 3.5.

That's not to say that you should run right out and get 3.5. If you really use that many non-core rulebook materials, it IS a hassle. But I suspect that for most, it's not a big one. It's only for folks who feel the absolute need to competely transform a 3.0 supplement in its entirety that will feel this pain (as I think Melkor has). For the rest, it will be a creature here, magic item there, spell there.

You've got a really good grasp of where I am coming from Dru. The campaign I just started is using several Forgotten Realms books, Necromancer Games' Tomb of Abysthor & Necropolis, City of the Spider Queen, and Oriental Adventures - all 3.0.

Over last weekend, and the Labor Day weekend, I worked on converting OA and Necropolis to 3.5 - It was way too much work to do it accurately, and those are the two key words for me. Work and accuracy. Can you play 3.0 products in 3.5 without a major conversion ? Sure. Is it as accurate as I like to play my games ? No.

That's not to say that I am a rules lawyer by any means, but running a high level combat with a 3.0 demon against several 3.5 characters is going to cause a whole lot of inconsistencies to spring up that I would rather avoid.

My group also finds several of the 3.5 changes unnecessary, so we've taken a few minor things that we like from 3.5 (that won't require much, if any, conversion to work with existing 3.0 products) and decided to stick with 3.0.....With the modules I have listed above, and the other WoTC and 3rd party 3.0 stuff I own, we probably have enough to play 3.0 for the rest of our lives......at least until 4th edition comes out - but that doesn't mean I wouldn't love to see 3.0 stats in future Necromancer Games products.

 

[TalonComics]

I doubt we're going to see any company put out 3.0 material any longer and I haven't seen any scheduled that is solicited as such.

Like it or not, 3.5 is the current version of D&D.

~D

 

[Nightfall]

Actually the last of the "old style" Bugs was rolled out of a factory in Mexico about a month ago. So, rather recently I'd say.

Bug Story

D'karr, that's Mexico though. Internationally, they are no longer produced.

El,

And just what is wrong with CC2?

 

[Ranger REG]

opengamingfoundation.org

It's still like this.

Not anymore. While Ryan Dancey may have a full plate at the moment, he managed to update his web site, although he forgot to add the following link to the main page:

www.opengamingfoundation.org/srd.html

[My Bad. He did link them in the Open Gaming Project link. Glad that he added the Anime SRD, but wonders if he'll include the Action! SRD by Gold Rush Games.]

The SRD is done by Wizards of the Coast (courtesy of Andy Smith, who took over Ryan Dancey's task). Therefore to get the OFFICIAL up-to-date document, go to their OFFICIAL d20 System web site:

www.wizards.com/d20

 

[reiella]

You can still get to that link by going through Open Gaming Projects (the 3.0 SRD that is).

Or of course,directly as Ranger posted .

 

[Ran]

Okay I see what you all mean and all that comes to my mind is:

If this is D&D 3.0 Revised Edition then why it is just like AD&D 1st edition AND AD&D 2nd edition?

Wizards said they were going to make a revision, they made a whole new system, based on the very same principles, but not that equal if you mind, converting shows that, I could easily throw a 2nd edition monster in a 3rd edition game too, that would take a little in game work like...

I had an adventure converted to 3.0 when it came out, it was a whole lot of work and wanna know? it never came anywhere near what it was with 2nd edition...

if 3.5 is the current version of the games and 3.0 is no more than wizards has already made 4.0 and given it another name, we are buying it and thinking that we have comaptible games, they are not...

Monsters are not just a little skills and some feats more than 3.0, characters are far stronger and the system in itself is far more munchkin than even 3rd edition was, and it was a lot!

Wanna know? I will probably buy 3.5, hack it for rules that we can use and that is all, hasbro should know that every market has a limit and I think they are overloading us...

For USA it may work, people who play are usually older than here in Brazil but here we pay very high for books and we don't want to spend thousands on books that are suddenly like those old AD&D or true-D&D, somehting we love but is not on the sales anymore...

Forget it, WotC is hasbro now, they sell toys, D&D is a toy to them, they want to sell they have a whole new line of? MINIATURES!! Come on!

Oh, by the way, just my thoughts, my opinions, no flaming... I just can't take this... 3.0 is my choice, 3.5 is just too close to 4th edition.