Are Buff Spells Overpowered?

[Plane Sailing]

Yes, and you cant empower any spell so that it gives more than a +6 enhancement bonus to any score. This is a hard rule.
No expetions. This means you can empower Bulls strengths once just for the lousy +1 you get....*lol* how stupid.

Where would this "hard rule" be found? I don't recall seeing it in the PHB, FAQ or any sage advice...

Polymorph is revised in TB the PHB version is invalid.
Polymorph is by no way overpowerd. It's 4th level spell, what makes it overpowered?
1. If you change to anything than humanoid, you lose all you euipment, nothing works anymore for the duration.
It's a permanent spell, someone gota dispel it sometimes ;O)
2. You dont get any special abilities or additional attacks.

1. put some items on the floor before you change. polymorph. pick them up again (especially since many magic items now magically resize to fit their owner).

2. You can get extra strength, dexterity, con (for fort save), reach, natural armour, mobility (e.g. umber hulk tunneling).

Many sensible and competent DM's will be concerned about possible abuses of the system. The spell is considerably better for casting on friendlies than it ever used to be, while remaining as good an offensive spell as ever.

It is generally best to make the points you wish without abusing other people who have a different point of view, even indirectly. Much less likely to stir up angry feelings that way, especially on the internet.

Cheers

 

[Simulacrum]

Where would this "hard rule" be found? I don't recall seeing it in the PHB, FAQ or any sage advice...

Cheers

Have you ever checked the DM's Guide?
It's on page 177 and 176.
Enhancement to scores is limited to +6. spells nor items can go above that. Read also Faq's and Wotc commentarys.
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The same goes for Inherit and most other bonuses only that they are ´limited to +5. You cant go above that.
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Polymorph doesnt care for the items to resize. It melds them into the new form (exept humanoid form). It prohibits spellcasting etc....It's you who is trying to get around the rules. You are just one fine example of an player on the table for the blind.
And it specifily say...other than humanoid form you CAN NOT use magic items. you CANT cast spells. This is a restriction of the spell not another rule that is to be reinterpreted by losers.
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Other than that Polymorph is a good spell...but never overpowered. It's dumb DM's and players who make it overpowered. Polymorph is fine the way it is.
I dont care if a mage turns into an Ogre mage with strength 23 and con 18. He still can only cast spells "or" attack.
On higher levels polymorphing is just another useless buff spell that is worth nothing in direct combat.
Believe me I'm the DM of my group and I'm keeping them in check without having to amputate their abilities, it's cool and good for them when they can cast polymorph the first time. First it's a very useful spell (how it should be or there would be no reason in casting it) and it's on a high level so you have to expect a bit from an none damaging spell. Later on they don't use it much. I mean higher levels you get better spells.
And the *villians* get smarter and stronger, why bother polymorphing?
And if you get to that point a clever DM starts using tactics!
As I gave examples above. Powergamer and buff character will start looking like running chicken when their overpowered spells jsut fail every round and they get dispelled and countered to hell by clever and recourceful *villians*. What do I care how high someone can wind up his spell DC when I'm just laughing and dispel all their plans in two rounds, while a good combination of Monsters and NPC's take them out faster then the PC's can look just because they relied on a lame and too obvious tactic.
Be hones to yourself, if you would be a high level villian with that much experience working together with other equally ecperienced you would do the same wouldn't you? You would EXPECT that.
Most buffs are worth NOTHING, when a clever DM uses the system how it should be used.
(Divination and scrying makes villians prepared earlier then the heroes because the villians have much more to lose.)
A clever DM isn't impressd by anything the players come up with.
Everything was allready done, there is no *surprise* for a clever NPC. They know what to expect.

 

[hong]

Have you ever checked the DM's Guide?
It's on page 177 and 176.
Enhancement to scores is limited to +6. spells nor items can go above that.

ITEMS that provide enhancement bonuses to scores are limited to +6. A multiply-empowered spell has no limits AFAIK.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Like Hong said. That refers to creating magic items. Do you have any other particular FAQs and commentaries in mind? I'd be very interested to see this in writing since it has never come up anywhere else.

Also

Polymorph doesnt care for the items to resize. It melds them into the new form (exept humanoid form).

What relevance does that have to my proviso #1? It doesn't meld stuff into you if you put it down or give it to someone else first, now does it!

Then you can just get your friends to fasten the cloak of whatever back on your back, loop the amulet of non-detection round your neck. You get the picture?

 

[Veldrane]

What Hong and PS said.. ..and please, don't go around talking about "Dumb DMs" or "Player on the table for the blind", contrary to your concept of "Clever DM"..
First, you're being unpolite..
Second, you're making fun of yourself, since your two arguments have no consistency rules-wise.
Now, I'm not saying that the +6 cap on Enhancement bonuses (wherever they come from) or your way to use Poly is not a way to solve problems, but it's not by the rules as they're written. It's yourcall, like every question is everyone's call, and can be a good call or not, this can be discussed..
..but if you're not completely certain about your argument, don't use such words, you're being ridiculous; and even if you are, don't do it, you'd be rude anyway..

 

[Simulacrum]

eh sorry for being unpolit:: but you are both wrong.
The cap for +6 enhancment counts for both magic and items.
Simple as that---> the same bonus doesnt stack.
If you didn't notice that rule than I'll sugest start reading the book!
2. Polymorph just forbids the use of magic items in any form other than humanoid form, no matter how many items your friends throw over your dragon body, the items will be ineffective, and wont function.
And even if it would work I would suggest that all items drop to the ground and scatter after someone hit you with dispel magic!
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I am right.

 

[hong]

eh sorry for being unpolit:: but you are both wrong.
The cap for +6 enhancment counts for both magic and items.
Simple as that---> the same bonus doesnt stack.

If I have a +6 enhancement bonus to Str from a +6 belt of giant strength, and a +8 enhancement bonus to Str from a doubly-empowered bull's strength spell, the end result is still +8. That's what "like bonuses don't stack" means.

If you didn't notice that rule than I'll sugest start reading the book!

Go away.

 

[Simulacrum]

No you are wrong. Believe me. It's not the way it is.
I'll open up a thread for the question to prove you wrong!
Bonus is bonus no matter where you got it from.
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*only two things are limitless, the universe and human stupidity*

 

[Thanee]

I am right.

No, you are not.

Read the Polymorph spell description again...

Bye
Thanee

 

[Simulacrum]

I read it, nothing proves me wrong. Pickinig up items afterwards is just a lame trick. f.e. Polymorphed into a dragon you dont have:
1. a human like voice
2. no human like hands
3. no clue about the forms physical property's
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Using items is like casting spells, if you cant do it like you did it always you will have a problem, your hands are too large and you could crush the items accidently with great strength.
Some creatures cannot use certain items.
Dragons for example cannot use robes, capes, mantles etc...
Dragons cannot even use swords or spears, not even a shield, how should a polymorphed mage even think about using a wand?? no way.