D&D 5E Are "evil gods" necessary? [THREAD NECRO]

[Lanefan]

Because they're less than fully rational?

Or because they simply don't subscribe to one or more of the three premises given.

 

[Zardnaar]

Or because they simply don't subscribe to one or more of the three premises given.

Well evil gods can also reward their followers in the afterlife. You go to their realm vs one of the lower planes.

And then there's the good old lying and manipulation. No one's gonginced they're the villain in their own story.

An evil war gods realm might be like a barracks and training ground. Someone might like that.

 

[Clint_L]

In a world where agnosticism is not an option, i.e.: it is an objective fact of the world that powerful beings exist that are called gods and have significant power to determine how pleasant or unpleasant your afterlife is...

I think the answer is an extremely firm "Yes, they are necessary" if you want people to act in anyway approaching plausible behavior. I will explain:

Some loose premises:
1.) We know that gods exist
2.) There are no "evil" gods who might shelter or protect evil do'ers in the afterlife
3.) We know that "good" gods punish evil do'ers in the afterlife
When you combine these three loose premises together, it would make no sense that anyone would ever actually be evil. It would be like saying "If you do 'x' you will be punished in the most extreme and eternal way possible" Why would anyone choose to do 'x' given the knowledge of premises 1 - 3?

Well, if good and evil are contextual, then these premises don't really work. I think if you want people to act plausibly, just give them plausible motivations instead of alignments. Real life doesn't have alignments. Shakespeare managed to write plays just fine without alignments. Milton wrote Paradise Lost without alignments, and to this day we debate whether or not his Satan is a hero or villain.

Alignments are a goofy concept that only existed to designate different teams in a wargame, and TTRPGS evolved past them ages ago. They are the appendix of D&D, serving little discernible purpose and occasionally causing great pain.

 

[aco175]

Wouldn't / Couldn't these powerful demons and devils that gain the ability to grant spells to worshippers become de facto gods themselves? And once they become gods, they are no longer just a demon or devil. I mean human gods are not just powerful humans or even powerful angels- they are something more. I can see Orcus being more like the other gods than a demon anymore.

 

[Minigiant]

My favorite is Mars, God of War and . . . Agriculture.

I don't mind deities sometimes having something a bit odd-looking in their portfolio.

For example, my version of Clanggedin covers war, battle, death - and poetry.

There's a point to this.
It often makes an otherwise evil god's worship and existence neccesary. It explains their cults.

When the god of slaughter is also the god of strength and lumberjacks, it makes the evil church around them not feel like pure crazies.

Then when the party is fighting some devil, the evil church of Slaughterjacks comes to help. And the players feel icky as the evil cleric summons Paul Bunyan to step on the balor their fighter is tanking.

 

[Zardnaar]

Wouldn't / Couldn't these powerful demons and devils that gain the ability to grant spells to worshippers become de facto gods themselves? And once they become gods, they are no longer just a demon or devil. I mean human gods are not just powerful humans or even powerful angels- they are something more. I can see Orcus being more like the other gods than a demon anymore.

Nope gods are a lot harder to kill. Archfiends can grant spells but have very little power associated true divinity.

Generally varies by edition and they have elevated fiends to true
Deities.

 

[Sepulchrave II]

In a world where agnosticism is not an option, i.e.: it is an objective fact of the world that powerful beings exist that are called gods and have significant power to determine how pleasant or unpleasant your afterlife is...

I think the answer is an extremely firm "Yes, they are necessary" if you want people to act in anyway approaching plausible behavior. I will explain:

Some loose premises:
1.) We know that gods exist
2.) There are no "evil" gods who might shelter or protect evil do'ers in the afterlife
3.) We know that "good" gods punish evil do'ers in the afterlife
When you combine these three loose premises together, it would make no sense that anyone would ever actually be evil. It would be like saying "If you do 'x' you will be punished in the most extreme and eternal way possible" Why would anyone choose to do 'x' given the knowledge of premises 1 - 3?

I think the idea that people would choose to disbelieve in a divine order despite evidence to the contrary is rather consistent with human behaviour. People are quite adept at framing an abundance of refutatory data in order to support their existing worldview.

And that's assuming that the specifics of said divine order are overtly apparent in the world - which they needn't be.

 

[Maxperson]

When you combine these three loose premises together, it would make no sense that anyone would ever actually be evil. It would be like saying "If you do 'x' you will be punished in the most extreme and eternal way possible" Why would anyone choose to do 'x' given the knowledge of premises 1 - 3?

I mean, the Italian Mafia was Catholic.

 

[Maxperson]

My favorite is Mars, God of War and . . . Agriculture.

Well you gotta be able to identify which enemy fields are the appropriate ones to salt!

 

[Maxperson]

Wouldn't / Couldn't these powerful demons and devils that gain the ability to grant spells to worshippers become de facto gods themselves? And once they become gods, they are no longer just a demon or devil. I mean human gods are not just powerful humans or even powerful angels- they are something more. I can see Orcus being more like the other gods than a demon anymore.

This is a fairly common D&D theme actually.