Are fighters that specialize in spiked chain viable/survivable at most/all levels?

While a spiked chain has a high opportunity cost (the Exotic Weapon Proficiency), it can be very useful if you build around it carefully. As already mentioned you're going to want Combat Reflexes (the increased attack area and reach means you're more likely to be able to take an AoO more than once) and Power Attack (it is a 2-handed weapon, so the 2-for-1 PA bonus is easily worth it). Improved Trip is useful, though my builds tend to go for Cleave first. It's likely to come in at lower levels (when a group of goblins are common fodder), and the reach of the chain means you're more likely to have another target in reach when you drop a foe. In most games, I'd take Improved Trip before Great Cleave, however.

As a 1st level character, if using spiked chain I like to be a human fighter. That allows you to start with Exotic Wpn Prof, Combat Reflexes and Power Attack all at once.

At higher levels I have found Spring Attack useful, especially when dealing with other spiked chain users (especially Large spiked chain users). Whirlwind Attack is more useful with a spiked chain, but unless you regularly face hordes of low-level foes it's rarely worth it.

Boosting your size a class can also be more useful than you might think. If you get an enlarge spell, you go from threatening 24 spaces (not including your own) to threatening 32 spaces (other than your own). If your DM runs a character on a horse as taking up all 4 spaces of the horse, for example, you can fight on horseback with a spiked chain and gain the additional threatened area.

If you do go with the Cleave build, pick up Improved Critical when you can. It boosts the number of occasions on which you'll drop a foe when cleaving is still useful.

If using things from the Complete Warrior, you might ask your DM about Hold the Line. Since it specifies it allows you to make an AoO under conditions you normally can't, it might count as a different opportunity, allowing you to make two AoOs against a charging creature (one when it enters the outermost space you threaten, and a second when it leaves it). Even if your DM disallows that interpretation, it will allow you to make an AoO against a charging creature with 10 ft. reach. Similarly Karmic Strike is more useful when it can be used against ogres.

If using material from Complete Arcane, consider Mage Slayer. I personally don't allow it in my games, but if your DM does a spiked chain is the weapon to use it with.

If you're going with a high-Dex, low Str build, you'll want Weapon Finesse. Spiked chain is one of the best weapon Finesse Weapon options, though again you spend a lot of feats to be able to use it well. I have found character of this type actually often do well as fighter/rogues, since the sneak attack is easier to set up with greater reach, and it adds damage which might be lost from a low Strength. My very first 3e character was a fighter/rogue with a spiked chain, and he proved very effective in games at Wizards of the Coast.

Owen K.C. Stephens
 

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smootrk said:
I have a feeling that the spiked chain is 'broken'. I am sure that those who really like the weapon will disagree with my view, but I just don't see that it is better than the longsword, otherwise historically it would have been in wide use instead of polearms, swords, and axes.

Therefore, I think some judgment errors were made by the originators of the weapon stats.

Not to say that it couldn't be fixed with some adjustments like reduction in damage dice, penalties (as I see it, it takes space in all directions equal to its reach to spin around yourself to get the proper momentum for an attack or else face a penalty to both hit & damage), suseptible to countering disarming attacks, susceptable to sundering attacks... just to name a few drawbacks that might be appropriate to re-establish balance and reasoning why it was not in much greater use throughout history.

This has always been one of my biggest gripes with the Spiked Chain. Since it was never used in reality, it can't possibly that good of a design. That and every illustration I've seen of it has spikes projecting from the chain links down the entire length of the weapon. Which means if you grasp it you will puncture your own hand. Not a great design idea... There are real world chain weapons, manriki-gusari (weighted chain seen in OA), the rante (small "shurken" like weights at each end) and of course the near endless Asian selection of weapon/chain combos (kama & chain, spear & chain, grapple & chain, etc.). Why does the game need a silly made up chain weapon? The manriki-gusari has pretty much every feature the spiked chain does and it isn't absurd...

And as someone else pointed out why not take a reach weapon and have short range weapon as a back-up? No Feat burn with that combo...

I've always thought a naginata focused fighter would be very cool. Maybe some spiked gauntlets for the up-close-and-personal encounters...

A manriki-gusari build might be cool as well...
 



OStephens said:
Boosting your size a class can also be more useful than you might think. If you get an enlarge spell, you go from threatening 24 spaces (not including your own) to threatening 32 spaces (other than your own
I think you would actually cover 96 spaces when enlarged. A large creature with a large spiked chain has a reach of 20 feet, doesn't it?

Håkon
 

And as someone else pointed out why not take a reach weapon and have short range weapon as a back-up? No Feat burn with that combo...

Multiple reasons actually. You'd have to take feats to specialize in multiple weapons instead of one (Weapon Focus, Improved Crit, etc). You'd have to spend valuable resources on multiple magical weapons instead of one. When switching to your short range weapon, you'd have to use a one handed weapon, or drop the reach weapon. While this doesn't sound as bad, you lose x1.5 Str damage that you'd get with the chain, the ability to Power Attack at a 2 to 1 ratio, and the ability to threaten out to 10'. Though I wish it weren't so, the spiked chain is a much more effective means of gaining reach. Even so, I still refuse to use it, it's such a tasteless weapon.

I've seen a powerful spiked chain characters in my campaign. The character was a scout and used the spiked chain with Spring Attack. He focused on the Dex aspect of the weapon, and used his Skirmish ability to increase his damage. Next, he focused on AoO's since the extra attacks he gained from AoO's would be able to apply his skirmish damage. Feats like Improved Trip, Karmic Strike, Combat Reflexes, and Hold the Line made him a melee monster.
 

In concept and in play I've found the spiked chain far too effective. As the above poster mentions, you end up spending MORE feats to be effective in melee with reach/non-reach weapons, along with having to find/spend money on two weapons while the SC guy only needs his chain.

It's just silly-useful, and is universally banned in all of my games.

--fje
 

Gulla said:
I think you would actually cover 96 spaces when enlarged. A large creature with a large spiked chain has a reach of 20 feet, doesn't it?

Yes, but I make it 76, not 96...

(Actually, I make it 56, because as written, a Large creature with a Large spiked chain threatens at 5', 15', and 20', but not at 10'. But if we assume he threatens everything out to 20 feet, it's 76.)

-Hyp.
 

smootrk said:
I have a feeling that the spiked chain is 'broken'. I am sure that those who really like the weapon will disagree with my view, but I just don't see that it is better than the longsword, otherwise historically it would have been in wide use instead of polearms, swords, and axes.

Therefore, I think some judgment errors were made by the originators of the weapon stats.

Not to say that it couldn't be fixed with some adjustments like reduction in damage dice, penalties (as I see it, it takes space in all directions equal to its reach to spin around yourself to get the proper momentum for an attack or else face a penalty to both hit & damage), suseptible to countering disarming attacks, susceptable to sundering attacks... just to name a few drawbacks that might be appropriate to re-establish balance and reasoning why it was not in much greater use throughout history.

Is it realistic? Probably not.

Is it balanced with other D&D weapons? Sure.

People salivate over the combination of abilities: reach-and-close, trip and disarm benefits, and so on. But they always neglect the drawbacks: damage. At 2d4/20 x2, the spiked chain is less effective than any two-handed martial weapon at dealing damage. And it costs an exotic weapon proficiency to boot. If you evaluate it in comparison with the alternatives, you will find that it is balanced just fine.
 

(Psi)SeveredHead said:
The same way they nerfed Mord's Disjunction, right? (Oh wait, they didn't.)

Exactly.

One of my character choices for our next game is a rogue/monk/fighter/ninja spy who'll use a kusarigama. I'm reasonably sure my ninja-dude won't dominate the game.

The DM threw a spiked chain wielder at our party a few months back, and she did okay. However, it's amazing how you can cast spells while prone.

Brad
 

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