Are gamers really that pathetic?

[Incenjucar]

I'm a social mis-fit too, bucko. I do, however, try to be respectful towards others, even if I don't care much for them. I bathe (currently, I shower TWICE a day, due to my little workout routine -- man is my skin clear now) regularly, I manage my hair habitually (the "Queer Guys" got nothin' on me), and I've studied how people react enough to know when to smile if I want attention.

I'm a misfit. I'm overweight. I'm a nerd. I'm a net-addict. I was so shy I never even admitted that I -liked- girls until I was 18. Hell, I'm an atheist, whose been in a Christian-laden area for five years or so.

Not a virgin though.

Because I got off my fat arse and made an effort.

 

[Desdichado]

Thats a big broblem with a lot of people who have grown up in the US. They think freedom is about not having consequences for their actions.

Wise words, there. Just the other day, in a political debate that I have no business explaining here, I came to the conclusion (and said as much) that in Western Civilization today, we actually have very few true adults. We do, however, have a lot of self-serving, overgrown spoiled brats who don't understand that they shouldn't really just do whatever the heck they feel like, or get bent out of shape when it doesn't work out for them to try whatever the heck they feel like.

 

[Lichtenhart]

I'm a social mis-fit too, bucko. I do, however, try to be respectful towards others, even if I don't care much for them. I bathe (currently, I shower TWICE a day, due to my little workout routine -- man is my skin clear now) regularly, I manage my hair habitually (the "Queer Guys" got nothin' on me), and I've studied how people react enough to know when to smile if I want attention.

I'm a misfit. I'm overweight. I'm a nerd. I'm a net-addict. I was so shy I never even admitted that I -liked- girls until I was 18. Hell, I'm an atheist, whose been in a Christian-laden area for five years or so.

Not a virgin though.

Because I got off my fat arse and made an effort.

And before you took the decision to do that, how exactly did you react to people telling you 'get off your fat arse, bucko'?

 

[Lichtenhart]

Wise words, there. Just the other day, in a political debate that I have no business explaining here, I came to the conclusion (and said as much) that in Western Civilization today, we actually have very few true adults. We do, however, have a lot of self-serving, overgrown spoiled brats who don't understand that they shouldn't really just do whatever the heck they feel like, or get bent out of shape when it doesn't work out for them to try whatever the heck they feel like.

On this matter, I can agree wholly with both of you. But, after pointing out a problem, I like to look for solutions too. We can't simply wish for all this people to disappear, or grow up. I think that this happens because we (we as a society) don't educate people enough. So that's what I do with my free time. I work with children trying to make them understand these points, so they can be responsible adults when they grow up. You'd be surprised how many parents don't do that.

 

[jester47]

i'm trying to be independent

Thats all it takes. Keep up the effort, check back in a year. So increase your chances of getting hired, only be a misfit when its appropriate!

and you people, you want to rob those like me of the one thing that makes our lives something approaching tolerable for a few brief hours. because we "bring down the public perception of the hobby".

My wanting you to take a shower and have manners and not freak people out with constant costume wearing keeps you from playing D&D how? If anything it will allow you to play more.

"The only thing that burns in Hell is the part of you that won't let go of life, your memories, your attachments. They (the devils) burn them all away. But they're not punishing you, he said. They're freeing your soul. So, if you're frightened of dying and... and you're holding on, you'll see devils tearing your life away. But if you've made your peace, then the devils are really angels, freeing you from the earth."

Its not about ostracism. Its not about you leaving forever. Its about liberation. Its about you learning to be socially acceptable in a game that is extremely social.

i suppose from a darwinian point of view, this may be a good thing. i mean, i'm already not reproducing, but i suppose it's best for the species if people like me aren't consuming resources, and giving us less things to numb the pain of life might be good if more of us kill ourselves. i'm gonna kill myself when i turn 30 (or sooner, if my means of support dries up).

If you keep trying to change, and adapt you will eventually kill the person you once were. The one that replaces the person you once were will probably deserve the resources. I want you to change, not die or go away.

as far as hygeine, why should i bathe? i've been bathing frequently for the last couple weeks and it hasn't made me any more attractive to girls, so why should i bother? why should i bother doing anything?

why live?

Why bathe? You have to start somewhere. Work from the outside in. It takes people time to figure out that you have changed and that THE CHANGE HAS STUCK.

The other problem with people in the US these days is this concept of instant gratification. Things take time. It takes time to change and it hurts, cause no one will believe you changed and they will still remember that memory of you. You will remember it too. however for you you know its what you were, and not what you have become. And that which does not kill you only make you stronger.

Remember, (if you read the rest of the thread) it took me a year to stop smelling like cat piss.

Why live? Cause you don't want to die. You really want to disappear and see who misses you. And trust me you will be missed by more people than you probably think, or can possibly even know.

Aaron.

 

[Dark Jezter]

Thats a big broblem with a lot of people who have grown up in the US. They think freedom is about not having consequences for their actions.

The other problem with people in the US these days is this concept of instant gratification.

Agreed, but those attitudes are hardly the exclusive domain of some Americans; I frequently see Canadians and Europeans displaying them as well.

 

[Desdichado]

You'd be surprised how many parents don't do that.

Sadly enough, I probably wouldn't be all that surprised after all...

 

[jester47]

On this matter, I can agree wholly with both of you. But, after pointing out a problem, I like to look for solutions too. We can't simply wish for all this people to disappear, or grow up. I think that this happens because we (we as a society) don't educate people enough. So that's what I do with my free time. I work with children trying to make them understand these points, so they can be responsible adults when they grow up. You'd be surprised how many parents don't do that.

This brings up an off topic point. I think education should include two things that are not done now:

1) Stuff you need to know to operate in the real world. There is a lot of business related skills that the average person needs to know that are not taught at the HS level. I think they need a curriculum for life skills. Like how to buy a home, how to find out renters rights, how to invest, how a 401K plan works, how to save money, etc.

2) Social skills and why those skills are important. The (not quite) newtonian physics of human social interaction. And expanded PE programs that arn't just running around for 30 minutes but teach things about how to work out when you are busy and how to reduce stress. How to get pumped up. Basicly teaching people how to live so they have more options than TV and a couch.

Aaron.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Just to clarify this:

If the people whose future is being decided finds a starfleet uniform offensive, they only have to ask their attorney to have her removed from the jury. And many people on jury duty could have much more clouded judgement than her, only they fall within your unspoken rules so you can't notice.

Whether that person can be removed by the motion of an attorney depends on the laws of procedure of the court (Federal, particular state, country in question).

If the attorney has used all of his preremtory strikes or strikes for cause, he may not be able to have that Starfleet goob removed. If I'm defending a black client who is accused of raping a white woman in Texas, I am, in all likelyhood, going to remove a LOT of people from the jury pool before I even CONSIDER removing the costume jockey, like past rape victims and current white supremacists. And if my colleague at the prosecutors table similarly gets rid of the Nation of Islam types, we may find ourselves out of challenges with the Trekker still in the pool.

Which is, essentially, what happenened.

After that, the only way to remove the juror is if the juror does something that warrants removal...say, by acting whacky enough that the judge or one of the parties believes the juror is incapable of doing his or her duty.

Which is, essentially, what happenened.

Or, to put it another way, I have seen goths serve on juries without a problem, because, despite their attire, they took their responsibility seriously and didn't do anything to get booted. But they weren't sitting there in court claiming that they actually WERE "Lords of Darkness," as opposed to this person who claimed to be a Star Fleet Commander.

 

[Ralts Bloodthorne]

Well, I figure I'll put my two cents in on this...

First, for those of you who don't know me, I'll give you a little background on myself, probably more than most of you who know me have actually heard...

I did 10 years in the US Army, actually as part of ChemCorps, and assigned to the United States Department of Defense. I served in a lot of hot zones, and my military career cost me 2 wives.

One divorce.

One died.

I was wounded several times on the battlefield, once spending two months in the hospital in a coma because of injuries.

I've been married for 12 years now, and have four children.

I was active in sports in high school, but not in social activities. Maladjusted? No. I was a textbook sociopath, with severe disassociation disorders. I played AD&D because it was easy for me.

I played AD&D in the military, with other soldiers.

I bathe regularly, wash my clothing after wearing it once, and prefer to were Stetson cologne very lightly.

I have bad teeth, but that's because a cheap-ass dentist tore off the braces early, and ripped most of the frontal enamel off my teeth. Great. The braces were there to ensure that my teeth were in the correct position while my jaw healed around the plate that replaced a crushed portion of my jawbone.

I wear combat boots and a flannel shirt, and at a publisher's meeting, sat through the entire thing in a sling and refused my wife's urging to see a doctor due to a shoulder dislocation.

I'm somewhat reclusive nowdays, despite the fact that online I get along with Dana Jorgenson, Morrus, Hellhound, Anthony Valterra, Chris Johansen, JDWiker, Hildulf, and others, who might even hate my guts, but I'm still polite, treat them with respect, and have good manners with. Sure, I'm a recluse, but the internet keeps them at a distance, where I can handle them, since their epidermis is crawling with possibly infectious bacterial and viral substances. (For those of you that doubt that claim, see my "Recent Absence and Return" thread. The virus entered through a cut on my cheek where the nasty little illegal Russian immegrant SNEEZED ON ME. So you and your infectious crap stay the hell away from me and my phobias)

I'm mean, cruel, and perfectly willing to cash the checks my mouth writes.

Sure, I'm a social misfit, but AD&D didn't make me that way...

Life did.

Now, on to the topic...

Reading both posts, the arrogance in them by the writers and those interviewed, and the arrogance in this thread makes me laugh.

Oh, South American gamers are so great. /--EDITED OUT FOR INFLAMMATORY COMMENTS--/

Some of you advocate the ostracizing of "undesireable elements" in gaming groups. Hey, guess what, Cat-Piss Man isn't too bad. Smell flesh that has rotted in the desert sun for a week. Cat-Piss Man is an excellent roleplayer, and enhances the game. I'll just plug in a Glade Fresh'em and try to stay out of range of his breath....

For some people, particularly those with social disorders (such as myself. Crowds make my hands shake, my paranioa spike, and floods my system with combat chemicals. I overreact to the slightest stimulia and often react with violence. So, would you ostracize me from a gaming group, where I'm relaxed and calm because I can handle the number of people? Thanks, bigoted freak, remind me to wait in the parkinglot of your apartment complex with an axe-handle, ya friggin' bigot) gaming is the only social activity they have.

THIS GOES FOR GALS AS WELL AS GUYS!

Most women leave, not because of the shy geek who can't even look at them, and speaks in a mumble when talking to her, but because of the self-assurred "man's man" and socially adjusted buttmaster who hits on her, leers at her, and treats her as an inferior.

Reading the article on the booth-babes, I noticed two things...

Strippers are more honest than they are...

They make enough to pay thier rent, utilities and essential bills with ONE appearance, while the rest of us "socially maladjusted geeks" work for about 2 weeks to do that...

Yes, theft was listed, but it the article was definately heavy with a "gamers are geeks" bias. Guess what, I've studied some journalism at the Western Washington University and the University of Maryland (Yes, Ralts has an education beyond 4th grade, surprise surprise), and recognise a definate slant when I see one.

(Yes, I'm rambling, I'm relaxed, deal with it or move to the next post... Personaly, I don't care either way. Here's your post summary: Stereotypes bad, gaming community a good subculture)

The last time I went to a major convention (8 years ago, when I was attending college and was asked by several people in charge of the convention to run a Ravenloft game) I did notice that some gamers didn't bathe, didn't brush thier teeth (a pet peeve of mine. My teeth may be bad, but I still brush, even though I'm spitting blood and chips of enamel for 20 minutes afterwards, even though my dentist told me to quit doing it), were socially ackward or even socially retarded. Guess what? Somebody jacked all four tires on my car, stole my battery, broke my window and stole my car stereo, the baby's car seat, and my middle daughter's booster seat. A guy dressed a lot like Dr. Frankenfurter gave me his spare tire, a guy dressed in a squirrel suit with "89 BONK POINTS" written on his chest let me use his battery since he lived in the dorms, a goth chick gave me her spare tire, a guy reaking of cat-crap and unwashed human body, with stained clothing that looked as if they hadn't been washed in months gave me not only his spare tire, but his front passenger tire. A woman drove home, dropped off her kids, and lent me her car seat and her booster seat...

Enabling me and my family to drive 50 miles home. I've been broken down on the side of I-5, with a flat-tire, and had to DODGE people trying to run me down for sport in California.

Whose the social misfits? The guys in the hot cars who tried to run me down, or the possible furry who helped me out?

Personally, I'd rather claim the possible furry as my friend, even if he walked around town with a screaming teddy-bear taped to his crotch.

So some people look down on these people? These are the guys and gals that will stop at 2 AM to help some poor guy walking down the street in the rain. Who will stop and help a minority change thier tire. Who will help someone else, even if it means doing without something they wanted.

Sure, we should ostracize them. Tell you what, after Cat-Piss Man, how about we round up the guys who game that are disabled! You know, the ones in a wheelchair, the blind guys, the deaf players, or even guy who walks with a limp.

I know a guy with one eye who walks with a limp and whose voice changes pitch due to damage to his throat. Let's ostracize him, then maybe send him to an island! He's DIFFERENT!

Get off your high horse...

Gamers are primarily geeks. Sure, I'm a geek, but in a lot of ways, I'm in the minority as far as the way I act and dress and look and what I've done (I left home at 15, got a job at Centralia Meat Packing Plant [as seen on TV] to support my girlfriend and myself, etc etc etc) but I'm still a gamer geek.

Could it be that d20 is solidifying everyone's mind and opinions? Finally, the rules lawyers and mechanics nazi's are the overlords of gaming. People who couldn't handle the rough and tumble give and take of AD&D are now swarming into d20, and everyone is getting a high and noble opinion of gaming, even advocating ostracizing members of the community...

Get down from the cross, there, Gaming Jesus, someone else is cold, and could use the wood... You're hobby is safe, even if Cat-Piss Man is still playing it somewhere. Thanks to you, he's playing with other Cat-Piss Men, in thier own Cat-Piss Men Only Roleplaying Group. Way to further ostracize someone.

See, you guys who advocate ostracizing irritate me for a BIG reason. For a lot of these guys, gaming is thier only social activity, and other gamers are thier only "friends". Ostracizing them can lead to suicide. Not because of D&D, but because the people they trusted, that they thought were thier friends turned thier backs on them, and now they are truly alone.

But then, I'm just a broken down, malfunctioning cyborg, and you don't need to pay attention to anything I said. Despite the fact that I could justify looking down on many of you. Yup, I can. Like it or not, scream to yourself that I can't, that you bathe, that you don't live with mommy and daddy, that you are married, that you have friends...

If I look hard enough, I'm sure I can find something...

Just like your looking down on the part of our little society that only has our little culture for thier social life.

Personally? I hope that your overinflated ego ruptures and kills you in the explosion.

--Timothy Willard, resident loudmouth, arrogant bastard, and cruel guy all around.

PS-Yes, I knew it was dislocated, and no, I didn't care. Next time we have a meeting, and you want to say something, grow a spine and interrupt the jerk who tries to shout down everyone.